Peabrain

Hello,
Yes, these refer to drink-driving, below 0,80 grams and are thus punishable by a fine of 135 euros and 6 points off the licence. I'm somewhat surprised about there being no mention of the state of the car. You said earlier that there was a four-page letter. French bureaucracy can be verbose, but I would have thought there must be a bit more to it than the codes you got, in four pages.....
Wait and see.
PB

dmu

Hi, Garonne already mentioned in an earlier post #74 that a lot of the above Articles would be cited for drink/driving, and one of them covers lack of insurance. Didn't your friend mention L325-1 et seq? (No C.T./MOT)

Peabrain

Hi again,
Driving a car without insurance is covered by this article:
Article L324-2
but which doesn't figure in your friend's list.

jsbach

I've spoken to her again, asking specifically whether this number appears.
It doesn't, so it seems that the only thing she's being charged with is the lower drink-drive figure. I don't know if further investigations are continuing but it would seem unlikely that the Gendarmerie would adopt a piecemeal approach to the charges.
She has decided to have the car scrapped at the earliest opportunity, so at least she's not going to cause an accident. It's likely that she'll be back in the UK in a few months, where her family will no doubt attempt to influence her lifestyle choices.
This may bring the thread to a close, so I'd just like to thank those of you who've given me so much information and encouragement.

Thank you.

dmu

Au temps pour moi. Sorry, I've become dyslexic with all these figures!
JSB, please give us an update after the Hearing!

Garonne

Sorry for the bad news but 1247/delit is more than 0.8mg ie a much more serious category as it's a délit as opposed to a fraction.

The codes in the first part R224, etc, refer to the suspension of her licence.

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affich...Texte=20090716

The other ones L224-1 etc refer to her being required to have a medical before getting her licence back. She is jolly lucky if these charges are just going to automatically be passed without having to attend a tribunal as she may not therefore face a suspended sentence or probation. Ridiculously, in France if your licence is retained on the spot by the police you are required to do a blood test to get it back. If not, you don't. So she'll have to have a blood test to get her licence back and may not be facing a court case but a very hefty fine (35,000 max and 2 years in prison) as she was over the 0.8mg.

dmu

I give up.
The 1247 délit (higher than 0.8) isn't compatible with the "lower" figure cited by your friend.

jsbach

I'll try to get her to send me scans or photocopies of the documents......

Garonne

You poor thing Johann.
L234.1 is definitely for being over 0.8 g for a blood test but over over 0.4 mg for an 'air' test - ie a breath test. This is how the confusion's arisen dmu.

Même en l'absence de tout signe d'ivresse manifeste, le fait de conduire un véhicule sous l'empire d'un état alcoolique caractérisé par une concentration d'alcool dans le sang égale ou supérieure à 0,80 gramme par litre ou par une concentration d'alcool dans l'air expiré égale ou supérieure à 0,40 milligramme par litre est puni de deux ans d'emprisonnement et de 4 500 euros d'amende.

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affich...Texte=20090716

What I still don't understand is that I've never heard of these cases, ie the higher categories being dealt with by the Procureur and the papers being given to her on 27th March by the police siting her convictions. They always go before the tribunal. Is she ABSOLUTELY sure she is to attend the Gendarmerie on 27th and if so, can she scan you that letter. As she's bilingual she's hardly likely to have misread it so she must explain what she's going there on 27th for. Because these offences can involve prison sentences or suspended sentences they always go before a judge.

EuroTrash

Deleted - just saw G's post which said the same thing.

jsbach

I wonder if anyone has any idea what sort of sentence my friend may end up with, assuming she's guilty of the délit for being over the limit. Obviously, the information which many have posted on here are the maximum sentences, but I wonder what the averages are (if there's any such thing).
As I've said, she only has a very small income and no capital or savings, except for the house which she's just signed the papers to sell.

Peabrain

Hi,
I'm extremely wary of quoting this, but as it's on the internet, here goes.

11. Les tribunaux prononcent-ils souvent des peines de prison en la matière ?

Les tribunaux ne prononcent que rarement des peines d'emprisonnement ferme. Lorsque vous comparaissez pour la première fois, le juge vous condamnera à une peine de prison avec sursis. Cela signifie que si dans les 5 ans vous n'êtes pas à nouveau condamné, vous n'effectuerez jamais cette sanction. Par contre, si vous avez à faire à la justice, une nouvelle fois, outre les peines qui seront décidées à l'occasion de cette nouvelle infraction, vous devrez en plus effectuer les mois de prison qui pesaient au dessus de votre tête.

So roughly speaking, if your chum gets done only for the drink-driving, she may well not go to prison.
I trust Garonne or someone more knowledgeable will come along and confirm.

jsbach

An interesting possibility now arises, if Peabrain's passage is the norm (common-sense would suggest that it is). If my friend's house sale proceeds and she's given a suspended prison sentence with probation, what happens when she wants to leave France and return to the UK, assuming that it happens within the next few months?

Garonne

Exactly Peabrain. A fixed prison sentence is only normally for drink drivers who have injured others. What I don't understand as I've already stated is what this interview at the Gendarmerie is about on 27th March. These cases are always put before a tribunal. Johann - you have to ask her specifically what this convocation is for and WHERE. It's worrying me that it's possibly to present her replacement French driving licence in order that they can confiscate it ... Otherwise because of the nature of her offences I can't see the Procureur instructing the Gendarmerie of what fine/suspension/probation to give her without a tribunal hearing.

If you friend is 'convoquéd' before the tribunal as I've already explained she will have to provide a blood test specifically for alcohol levels. This will sway the judge one way or the other. If it's over the limit, regardless of the fact that she's currently unable to drive, it will go against her and she'll be looking at a 6 month suspension of her licence, 6 points off, possibly a fine and a suspended prison sentence with 18 months probation. She would be well advised to delay the completion of her house sale until this is all over. A low income will incur a lesser fine, but having a substantial amount of 'liquid' cash will impose a huge fine.

Garonne

Our posts clashed! If she's given probation she won't be able to even leave France without permission from her probation officer, which I thought I'd explained earlier up the thread so forgive me for repeating myself if that's the case. The standard period for probation for drink driving over the top limit is 18 months with a one month suspended sentence.

Quite simply she won't be able to leave France indefinitely until her probation period is complete. For any holidays she will have to provide justification to her probation officer by way of travel documents and report to her probation officer before her departure and upon her return.

I'm sorry no-one can predict the outcome of this - the French judicial system is a serious minefield. One rule for one, one for another. But one thing's for sure - I know of no cases where a drink driver over the .4mg doesn't get hauled before the judge and required to submit a blood test. I wish I could read the documents she is in posession of. This would make things so much clearer and help us to advise more accurately what her current situation is.