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Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Old Jul 11th 2020, 11:26 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I am honestly frustrated about the 14 day quarantine especially when it doesn't really make any sense for somebody entering the country from another country with way lower infection rates. Also I am frustrated of the lack of consideration to air bridges whilst other countries have successfully implemented them. At the same time I am emotionally unable to comply with 14 days spending in just a hotel room, nor am I able to stay outside of Canada beyond September. Honestly, I'd even risk a jail sentence. Unless the regulation changes I will most certainly have to break this law and or risk getting caught. Thus my questions around this matter.
We've discussed this before. You don't have to spend 14 days in a hotel room. Rent holiday accommodation such as an airbnb with outside space. There's no reason for you to break the law.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...th-advice.html
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Old Jul 11th 2020, 6:48 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I am honestly frustrated about the 14 day quarantine especially when it doesn't really make any sense for somebody entering the country from another country with way lower infection rates. Also I am frustrated of the lack of consideration to air bridges whilst other countries have successfully implemented them. At the same time I am emotionally unable to comply with 14 days spending in just a hotel room, nor am I able to stay outside of Canada beyond September. Honestly, I'd even risk a jail sentence. Unless the regulation changes I will most certainly have to break this law and or risk getting caught. Thus my questions around this matter.
What Province do you need to be in OM? Perhaps we can have a look around for you, see what's available? I strongly suggest you don't break the law!! Serious implications for having done so.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
What do you mean you're 'emotionally unable' to comply with the quarantine?

A jail sentence would surely put your potential job and PR at risk more than just waiting a while or quarantining as required? Not to mention that if your reason for returning is financial, wouldn't the potential enormous fine outweigh any financial benefit?

Exactly! The implications are extensive for non-compliance!

Violating any instructions provided to you when you entered Canada is an offence under the Quarantine Act and could lead to up to:
  • 6 months in prison and/or
  • $750,000 in fines
Further, a person who causes a risk of imminent death or serious bodily harm to another person while wilfully or recklessly contravening this act or the regulations could be liable for:
  • a fine of up to $1,000,000 or
  • imprisonment of up to 3 years or
  • both
The Contraventions Act has been changed to give police (including RCMP, provincial and local police) more power to enforce the Quarantine Act. They can now issue tickets to people who do not comply with the act. Fines range from $275 to $1000.
Who would want to risk the financial loss of up to $1m and prison time (which would impact their future for ever) - but just as important, who would want to be responsible for potentially causing someone's death because they didn't want to comply!

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
We've discussed this before. You don't have to spend 14 days in a hotel room. Rent holiday accommodation such as an airbnb with outside space. There's no reason for you to break the law.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...th-advice.html


This measure is in effect until August 31st and could be extended.
  • Travellers who do not have an appropriate place in which to isolate or quarantine themselves must go to a place designated by the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada. These criteria are newly applied to asymptomatic travellers.
  • In addition, all travellers arriving in Canada will be required to wear a non-medical mask or face covering to proceed to their final destination where they will isolate or quarantine. They will be provided with a mask if they do not have one.
If OM can't afford the quarantine costs the Govt will put them in a place.. perhaps that's what they mean by being stuck in a hotel... there are alternatives if you have no symptoms (they are suggesting you DON'T stay in a hotel now) https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...ion-sheet.html

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Old Jul 13th 2020, 12:14 am
  #48  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
I do wonder if Canada could attract enough tourists from elsewhere in the world, to make up for the loss of US tourists...
Doubtful. About 66% of tourists to Canada are from the US (about 13 million out of about 20 million per year). A lot are probably short trips (maybe even day trips) but that's still a lot to make up - especially if people are deterred from flying because of the pandemic.

Last edited by MarylandNed; Jul 13th 2020 at 12:23 am.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 12:21 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
We've discussed this before. You don't have to spend 14 days in a hotel room. Rent holiday accommodation such as an airbnb with outside space. There's no reason for you to break the law.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...th-advice.html
The link even states "Avoid staying at a hotel". I'm not sure if this is just advice or a requirement. I have to quarantine for 14 weeks when I drive my daughter up from Maryland for her 2nd year at the University of Toronto. I'm looking for a house/cottage/cabin/apartment somewhere nearby (2-3 hrs from Toronto) with some outdoor space because we'll go nuts if confined to a hotel room.

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ph...canada-eng.pdf
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 12:26 am
  #50  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
They have but it took a very long time. Canada is also still in the TPP whereas America isn't. I still can't envisage Canada relaxing its border restrictions for other countries but leaving the US out of the picture though unfortunately.
Why not? It would make a lot of sense to get flights up and running to/from low risk countries. Why would Canada have to wait for the US to get its act together?
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 1:54 am
  #51  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
At the same time I am emotionally unable to comply with 14 days spending in just a hotel room, nor am I able to stay outside of Canada beyond September. Honestly, I'd even risk a jail sentence. Unless the regulation changes I will most certainly have to break this law and or risk getting caught. Thus my questions around this matter.
Wow! What does this mean...it is most interesting can you please elaborate? This isn’t a choice thing, as I understand it? It is a we WILL, as a group, for the better result of the ‘whole’ group...not one individual? How did you understand it and where did I get it wrong?
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 3:34 am
  #52  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by MarylandNed View Post
Doubtful. About 66% of tourists to Canada are from the US (about 13 million out of about 20 million per year). A lot are probably short trips (maybe even day trips) but that's still a lot to make up - especially if people are deterred from flying because of the pandemic.
I was pretty certain it wouldn't be possible, I just didn't know what the numbers were.

Thanks.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 8:09 am
  #53  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
What do you mean you're 'emotionally unable' to comply with the quarantine?

A jail sentence would surely put your potential job and PR at risk more than just waiting a while or quarantining as required? Not to mention that if your reason for returning is financial, wouldn't the potential enormous fine outweigh any financial benefit?
I'd go mad having to spend in a room for a prolonged period of time. Is that so difficult to understand. Sadly sometimes there are laws, where one simply can't realistically comply regardless if there are others who can or managed to do it. PR is not my status anyway, I am citizen. They'd have to catch me in the act first and they would actually have to convict me in a court of law, before a jail sentence is imposed.

I am also unclear, why Canada is so stubbornly refusing testing at the border. Iceland does it, and it's not that difficult to implement. The health effects for legalizing Cannabis are probably way worse in Canada, than one test out of thousands being incorrect. But again, that's a very hard discussion to have with anybody these days.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 8:23 am
  #54  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I'd go mad having to spend in a room for a prolonged period of time. Is that so difficult to understand. Sadly sometimes there are laws, where one simply can't realistically comply regardless if there are others who can or managed to do it. PR is not my status anyway, I am citizen. They'd have to catch me in the act first and they would actually have to convict me in a court of law, before a jail sentence is imposed.

I am also unclear, why Canada is so stubbornly refusing testing at the border. Iceland does it, and it's not that difficult to implement. The health effects for legalizing Cannabis are probably way worse in Canada, than one test out of thousands being incorrect. But again, that's a very hard discussion to have with anybody these days.
Testing would be completely pointless anyway IMO. It would work for those who already have Covid-19, but if you've caught it on the flight over then how is that going to help? You wouldn't test positive, and then would be allowed to just wander around spreading it further. The whole point of quarantine is to avoid that happening and to save other people's lives.

And again, you don't need to spend time in a 'room'. You can hire a huge house with a garden, pool, tennis court etc if you wish. You can certainly afford to do that if you can afford to risk the fine. Risking other people's health, not to mention a jail sentence and large financial penalty, just because you don't like the arrangements is unbelievable tbh.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 9:12 am
  #55  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
Testing would be completely pointless anyway IMO. It would work for those who already have Covid-19, but if you've caught it on the flight over then how is that going to help? You wouldn't test positive, and then would be allowed to just wander around spreading it further. The whole point of quarantine is to avoid that happening and to save other people's lives.

And again, you don't need to spend time in a 'room'. You can hire a huge house with a garden, pool, tennis court etc if you wish. You can certainly afford to do that if you can afford to risk the fine. Risking other people's health, not to mention a jail sentence and large financial penalty, just because you don't like the arrangements is unbelievable tbh.
Have you ever lived in solitary confinement? It isn't even a method recommended for prisoners in the long run and can do very negative things to a sense of mental wellbeing.

The measures being stipulated by the Canadian authorities might be fine for a family who can just relax, eat delivery food and play board games for a couple of weeks but for a lot of single people or those who suffer from anxiety, it's nothing short of a nightmare.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 9:16 am
  #56  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
PR is not my status anyway, I am citizen
If you're a citizen and you're in any way able to do so, I would honestly just recommend prolonging your return for another couple of months. It will likely be safer and less hassle in the long run.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 9:27 am
  #57  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Have you ever lived in solitary confinement? It isn't even a method recommended for prisoners in the long run and can do very negative things to a sense of mental wellbeing.

The measures being stipulated by the Canadian authorities might be fine for a family who can just relax, eat delivery food and play board games for a couple of weeks but for a lot of single people or those who suffer from anxiety, it's nothing short of a nightmare.
Of course it is, but even more of a nightmare to lose somebody you love from Covid-19, particularly if that was wholly avoidable and only due to somebody ignoring the rules. Relaxing, eating delivery food and playing board games aren't exclusively family activities, they can all be done by somebody alone too.

We have lots of friends and relatives who live alone and have been locked down at home for months now and haven't seen a single other person other than a grocery delivery driver. It's been utterly crap for them.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
If you're a citizen and you're in any way able to do so, I would honestly just recommend prolonging your return for another couple of months. It will likely be safer and less hassle in the long run.
+1. If quarantine isn't acceptable, then just not travelling seems the obvious answer.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 9:29 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Looking forward with interest to see how things pan out over the next two weeks for us. We arrived at a ghostly quiet Pearson yesterday afternoon from Frankfurt, where we’d been questioned before flying, our temperatures taken and accepted Covid forms to complete with our contact details. All very efficient and cheerful - in fact the ladies there asked us to ‘tell Canada that we’re checking you properly’.

Arrived at a small cluster of tables at the end of the long fast travelator at Pearson to be handed a different form - big group of people all gathering quickly to complete exactly the same details in a slightly different format on a larger piece of paper. The form we’d all be given in Frankfurt wasn’t acceptable apparently although there was no real checking at the exit where we handed the forms in, only that each person had completed one.
We also already had all the same details filled in on an ArriveCAN app on the phone where we only needed a token apparently available at the airport but that didn’t materialize at all.

We are now at home where we’ll be, with the support of friends and neighbours, for the next two weeks, so it’ll be interesting to see if any contact is made in that time. We were advised before collecting our luggage on the date we’ll be free of quarantine.

Daughter of a friend in Hungary was officially checked everyday of her quarantine recently so it can be strictly enforced as required.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 9:30 am
  #59  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by MarylandNed View Post
Doubtful. About 66% of tourists to Canada are from the US (about 13 million out of about 20 million per year). A lot are probably short trips (maybe even day trips) but that's still a lot to make up - especially if people are deterred from flying because of the pandemic.
How many of those are just short visitors to Toronto, Vancouver or Niagara Falls though? I would guess that statistically tourists from Europe and East Asia will likely spend far more per capita than American tourists, just due to the expense, time in hassle involved in getting to Canada in the first place.

It's a tricky situation though and I can understand why easing restrictions for other parts of the world whilst keeping them in place for visitors from the US could be politically sensitive. This is of particular concern if fate decides to shovel yet another load onto the 2020 pile and Trump gets re-elected in November. Right now, the regime in Washington is far from normal or rational and we've already seen Trudeau treading carefully around them.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 9:34 am
  #60  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
Of course it is, but even more of a nightmare to lose somebody you love from Covid-19, particularly if that was wholly avoidable and only due to somebody ignoring the rules.
Well I think OrangeMango's argument in this case is that the rules are overzealous, unfair and unnecessary. As a Canadian citizen currently overseas, all they can do for now though is avoid travelling in the short-term and make their opinions known democratically at the next election.
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