"Moving here for the kids"
#166
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
For me, all of your selection criteria are excellent, bar the Degree one.
I'm sure that, like me, you know many many people with degrees that are total morons, and plenty without degrees that are brilliant. I understand that you don't want people of sub-par intelligence applying for jobs and causing time and effort in weeding them out, but for the exact same reasons you state you shouldn't discriminate against the different degree types, for a job that clearly doesn't actually need a degree, you shouldn't discriminate against people that don't have one either.
I'm sure that, like me, you know many many people with degrees that are total morons, and plenty without degrees that are brilliant. I understand that you don't want people of sub-par intelligence applying for jobs and causing time and effort in weeding them out, but for the exact same reasons you state you shouldn't discriminate against the different degree types, for a job that clearly doesn't actually need a degree, you shouldn't discriminate against people that don't have one either.
#167
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2014
Location: Mission and loving it
Posts: 464
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
Fair enough, although for me a young person with 4 years work experience and excellent references would be more interesting than a person with a nothing degree, in fact I would be more likely to interview a person with experience and references than someone with a degree and none.
I know of far too many people that dossed through their degrees and I wouldn't take having a degree as meaning you have any discipline at all, but I suppose we all work with our own life experiences and no-one can really be faulted for that.
I know of far too many people that dossed through their degrees and I wouldn't take having a degree as meaning you have any discipline at all, but I suppose we all work with our own life experiences and no-one can really be faulted for that.
#168
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
Fair enough, although for me a young person with 4 years work experience and excellent references would be more interesting than a person with a nothing degree, in fact I would be more likely to interview a person with experience and references than someone with a degree and none.
I know of far too many people that dossed through their degrees and I wouldn't take having a degree as meaning you have any discipline at all, but I suppose we all work with our own life experiences and no-one can really be faulted for that.
I know of far too many people that dossed through their degrees and I wouldn't take having a degree as meaning you have any discipline at all, but I suppose we all work with our own life experiences and no-one can really be faulted for that.
There was one guy, for example, who had graduated with a business degree and had worked for the UN during his summers. The guy looked great on paper, I went into that interview thinking for sure this guy was going to fly though the interview. However, every friggin question I asked him, he just responded with his experiences fly fishing.
"Tell me about a time when you worked as part of a team."
"In my fly fishing club, I dealt with ... ... ..."
"Tell me about a time when you took initiative on a project."
"In my fly fishing club, I organized x event... ... ..."
"Tell me about a time when you worked in a difficult situation"
"In my fly fishing club, we had declining membership... ... ..."
I even said to him at one point "okay, all your examples so far have been about fly fishing. Can you give me another experience?"
I asked him something else, he hummed and hawed, and then talked about how people from his fly fishing club did something or other in his polo club.
I'm just like, dude, you spent 5 years at university, and you worked at the UN in New York City. Come ON.
He really had no ability to demonstrate any of the qualities we were looking for... and thus he didn't get put through to a second-round interview.
#169
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
This was part of the reason for our "tell me about a time when" interviews. We looked for experience outside of just a piece of paper. Not necessarily work, but extra-curriculars, university committees, sports committees, part-time jobs, summer jobs, etc. Just having a degree wasn't good enough - you had to demonstrate that you had a range of experiences both inside and outside of school in order to get hired with us.
There was one guy, for example, who had graduated with a business degree and had worked for the UN during his summers. The guy looked great on paper, I went into that interview thinking for sure this guy was going to fly though the interview. However, every friggin question I asked him, he just responded with his experiences fly fishing.
"Tell me about a time when you worked as part of a team."
"In my fly fishing club, I dealt with ... ... ..."
"Tell me about a time when you took initiative on a project."
"In my fly fishing club, I organized x event... ... ..."
"Tell me about a time when you worked in a difficult situation"
"In my fly fishing club, we had declining membership... ... ..."
I even said to him at one point "okay, all your examples so far have been about fly fishing. Can you give me another experience?"
I asked him something else, he hummed and hawed, and then talked about how people from his fly fishing club did something or other in his polo club.
I'm just like, dude, you spent 5 years at university, and you worked at the UN in New York City. Come ON.
He really had no ability to demonstrate any of the qualities we were looking for... and thus he didn't get put through to a second-round interview.
There was one guy, for example, who had graduated with a business degree and had worked for the UN during his summers. The guy looked great on paper, I went into that interview thinking for sure this guy was going to fly though the interview. However, every friggin question I asked him, he just responded with his experiences fly fishing.
"Tell me about a time when you worked as part of a team."
"In my fly fishing club, I dealt with ... ... ..."
"Tell me about a time when you took initiative on a project."
"In my fly fishing club, I organized x event... ... ..."
"Tell me about a time when you worked in a difficult situation"
"In my fly fishing club, we had declining membership... ... ..."
I even said to him at one point "okay, all your examples so far have been about fly fishing. Can you give me another experience?"
I asked him something else, he hummed and hawed, and then talked about how people from his fly fishing club did something or other in his polo club.
I'm just like, dude, you spent 5 years at university, and you worked at the UN in New York City. Come ON.
He really had no ability to demonstrate any of the qualities we were looking for... and thus he didn't get put through to a second-round interview.
#170
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2014
Location: Mission and loving it
Posts: 464
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
lol, that's classic.
Did you contact the UN to see if he actually had worked there?
I have had some interesting responses when I checked up on peoples references :XD:
Did you contact the UN to see if he actually had worked there?
I have had some interesting responses when I checked up on peoples references :XD:
#171
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
Haha, he did not!
I didn't, that sort of thing was done by another department. If I had put him through to second round I would have flagged that sort of thing as I did find myself wondering about it.
I found out afterwards from someone else who was in the same pool of applicants that this guy had been bragging through all of the first stages of the interview process... bragging about how he'd graduated from some big-name US university (can't remember which offhand) and then had worked at the UN and this and that and the other thing...
And then he didn't make it through the first round.
He was apparently quite shocked when his name was not announced as one of the people who would be progressing to the second round of interviews.
Easily one of the worst interviews I've ever been in.
I found out afterwards from someone else who was in the same pool of applicants that this guy had been bragging through all of the first stages of the interview process... bragging about how he'd graduated from some big-name US university (can't remember which offhand) and then had worked at the UN and this and that and the other thing...
And then he didn't make it through the first round.
He was apparently quite shocked when his name was not announced as one of the people who would be progressing to the second round of interviews.
Easily one of the worst interviews I've ever been in.
#172
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
However, every friggin question I asked him, he just responded with his experiences fly fishing.
#173
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
I have been fortunate in that the four different companies I have worked at, based promotion on performance and not qualifications.
I do not have a degree, yet I have had many people with degrees working for me. Having or not having a degree has been no indication of future performance of any given worker.
I have applied for (and got) positions that have stated a degree is a requirement for the position, yet I do not have a degree. I think that having a degree MAY help you to "get your foot in the door" as it were, but won't guarantee you being successful, or even keeping your job, your actual ability will do that.
I do not have a degree, yet I have had many people with degrees working for me. Having or not having a degree has been no indication of future performance of any given worker.
I have applied for (and got) positions that have stated a degree is a requirement for the position, yet I do not have a degree. I think that having a degree MAY help you to "get your foot in the door" as it were, but won't guarantee you being successful, or even keeping your job, your actual ability will do that.
At the companies I worked for, the resumes screened out were automatically deleted from the system so hiring managers didn't even have access to them, they only had access to the one's that passed the initial computer screening.
Even once it your performance can be perfect with excellent reviews and not move up without a degree, there is almost always a co-worker now with a degree with just as good of a review from their supervisor.
#174
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
This was part of the reason for our "tell me about a time when" interviews. We looked for experience outside of just a piece of paper. Not necessarily work, but extra-curriculars, university committees, sports committees, part-time jobs, summer jobs, etc. Just having a degree wasn't good enough - you had to demonstrate that you had a range of experiences both inside and outside of school in order to get hired with us.
There was one guy, for example, who had graduated with a business degree and had worked for the UN during his summers. The guy looked great on paper, I went into that interview thinking for sure this guy was going to fly though the interview. However, every friggin question I asked him, he just responded with his experiences fly fishing.
"Tell me about a time when you worked as part of a team."
"In my fly fishing club, I dealt with ... ... ..."
"Tell me about a time when you took initiative on a project."
"In my fly fishing club, I organized x event... ... ..."
"Tell me about a time when you worked in a difficult situation"
"In my fly fishing club, we had declining membership... ... ..."
I even said to him at one point "okay, all your examples so far have been about fly fishing. Can you give me another experience?"
I asked him something else, he hummed and hawed, and then talked about how people from his fly fishing club did something or other in his polo club.
I'm just like, dude, you spent 5 years at university, and you worked at the UN in New York City. Come ON.
He really had no ability to demonstrate any of the qualities we were looking for... and thus he didn't get put through to a second-round interview.
There was one guy, for example, who had graduated with a business degree and had worked for the UN during his summers. The guy looked great on paper, I went into that interview thinking for sure this guy was going to fly though the interview. However, every friggin question I asked him, he just responded with his experiences fly fishing.
"Tell me about a time when you worked as part of a team."
"In my fly fishing club, I dealt with ... ... ..."
"Tell me about a time when you took initiative on a project."
"In my fly fishing club, I organized x event... ... ..."
"Tell me about a time when you worked in a difficult situation"
"In my fly fishing club, we had declining membership... ... ..."
I even said to him at one point "okay, all your examples so far have been about fly fishing. Can you give me another experience?"
I asked him something else, he hummed and hawed, and then talked about how people from his fly fishing club did something or other in his polo club.
I'm just like, dude, you spent 5 years at university, and you worked at the UN in New York City. Come ON.
He really had no ability to demonstrate any of the qualities we were looking for... and thus he didn't get put through to a second-round interview.
I can never answer those questions, I've ended interviews because of them. I simply can't answer some of them, and no point in trying to lie and make something up.
Joys of working in such rigid work environments, most of the questions asked were not relevant to any of my jobs, or happened so long ago I have forgotten.
I feel like saying, man I spent 5 years loading airplanes, I spent my entire time at the airport, I had no time to do anything else, I could not go outside of my scope because we were union, doing anything but my job would result in discipline. Yes I could have showed initiative and went to help the gate board instead of sitting outside waiting, *however* that would have gotten me and anyone else not in CSR union written up, so we had no choice but to sit and just watch and wait.
How many are going to risk their jobs?
Then in hotels doing auditing in the middle of the night, seriously, I just sit all night, do some spread sheets, print some reports, make sure the ledger is balanced, and then literally I do nothing else for 6 hours but wait for the day shift. I would usually do other things because I was so bored like cleaning the lobby and such, but nothing spectacular.
I hate hate hate this sort of interviewing, along with those aptitude tests that are impossible to pass. If a company does one during the application process, I know they will never call, and they never do.
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Apr 3rd 2015 at 1:00 am.
#175
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
I can never answer those questions, I've ended interviews because of them. I simply can't answer some of them, and no point in trying to lie and make something up.
I hate hate hate this sort of interviewing, along with those aptitude tests that are impossible to pass. If a company does one during the application process, I know they will never call, and they never do.
I hate hate hate this sort of interviewing, along with those aptitude tests that are impossible to pass. If a company does one during the application process, I know they will never call, and they never do.
This was part of the reason for our "tell me about a time when" interviews. We looked for experience outside of just a piece of paper. Not necessarily work, but extra-curriculars, university committees, sports committees, part-time jobs, summer jobs, etc. Just having a degree wasn't good enough - you had to demonstrate that you had a range of experiences both inside and outside of school in order to get hired with us.
Last edited by Jerseygirl; Apr 6th 2015 at 2:17 pm. Reason: Totally unnecessary remark
#176
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
I'm with you here. This type of gushing irrelevance:
irritates me greatly. <<<snip>>> if you don't fit the exact social class of the interviewer you cannot interview well in that circumstance. If you were poor you wouldn't have been on a sports committee, you wouldn't have been on a team that won the America's Cup, but you might still be good at accounting and you might value turning up, doing a good job, being paid for it and going away without being gung-ho'd to death.
irritates me greatly. <<<snip>>> if you don't fit the exact social class of the interviewer you cannot interview well in that circumstance. If you were poor you wouldn't have been on a sports committee, you wouldn't have been on a team that won the America's Cup, but you might still be good at accounting and you might value turning up, doing a good job, being paid for it and going away without being gung-ho'd to death.
Tell me about a time you had to make a difficult decision. It could be ANY decision. I actually didn't care what the decision was, I just wanted you to talk through how you weighed options, how you examined choices, what choice you made, and how you look back on it.
Only worked with baggage at an airport? Fine! Give me a few experiences from that, and then some from your social life, then some about living in the U.S. And moving to Canada, and so on.
Most of the time I was more interested in the thought process. With the aptitude tests it was the same thing, a simply problem solving question. One example (keeping in mind this is IT consulting), you are working in a dentist's office and he asks you to design a table to keep track of clients and patients. What kind of data is important to capture? How do you structure it?
A lot of the candidates had never worked with databases, but had worked with excel, so I just wanted 4I hear how they'd approach the problem, what kinds of things they'd consider, what kinds of data is with capturing, etc. No trick questions or anything, just come up with a game plan and as long as it was logical, even if it wasn't necessarily complete, it was just showing you had a general understanding of how this kind of thing might work.
Last edited by Jerseygirl; Apr 6th 2015 at 2:19 pm. Reason: Edit to quote
#177
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
And as for the rest of it, quite the opposite. I didn't care if you won America's Cup, or were on a sports committee, simply that you gave a RANGE of experiences as your answers.
Tell me about a time you had to make a difficult decision. It could be ANY decision. I actually didn't care what the decision was, I just wanted you to talk through how you weighed options, how you examined choices, what choice you made, and how you look back on it.
Only worked with baggage at an airport? Fine! Give me a few experiences from that, and then some from your social life, then some about living in the U.S. And moving to Canada, and so on.
Most of the time I was more interested in the thought process. With the aptitude tests it was the same thing, a simply problem solving question. One example (keeping in mind this is IT consulting), you are working in a dentist's office and he asks you to design a table to keep track of clients and patients. What kind of data is important to capture? How do you structure it?
A lot of the candidates had never worked with databases, but had worked with excel, so I just wanted 4I hear how they'd approach the problem, what kinds of things they'd consider, what kinds of data is with capturing, etc. No trick questions or anything, just come up with a game plan and as long as it was logical, even if it wasn't necessarily complete, it was just showing you had a general understanding of how this kind of thing might work.
Tell me about a time you had to make a difficult decision. It could be ANY decision. I actually didn't care what the decision was, I just wanted you to talk through how you weighed options, how you examined choices, what choice you made, and how you look back on it.
Only worked with baggage at an airport? Fine! Give me a few experiences from that, and then some from your social life, then some about living in the U.S. And moving to Canada, and so on.
Most of the time I was more interested in the thought process. With the aptitude tests it was the same thing, a simply problem solving question. One example (keeping in mind this is IT consulting), you are working in a dentist's office and he asks you to design a table to keep track of clients and patients. What kind of data is important to capture? How do you structure it?
A lot of the candidates had never worked with databases, but had worked with excel, so I just wanted 4I hear how they'd approach the problem, what kinds of things they'd consider, what kinds of data is with capturing, etc. No trick questions or anything, just come up with a game plan and as long as it was logical, even if it wasn't necessarily complete, it was just showing you had a general understanding of how this kind of thing might work.
#178
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
I hate those interview questions and never do well in them. I can't sit and spout flattering pre prepared speeches about myself for 10 minutes or so. I don't how this presents an accurate impression of the candidate.
Last edited by bats; Apr 3rd 2015 at 3:13 pm.
#179
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
I saw so many work colleagues get promoted ahead of me because they "interviewed well" with the strangers (not even HR specialists, just people out for the expenses associated with promotion boards away from their normal workplace) who made the decisions in our promotion exercises, while they had shown a fraction of the competence I had shown in the job and in several extended/repeated periods of working temporarily in the higher grade and having my managers universally recommending me for promotion time after time because they knew they could rely on me.
#180
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: "Moving here for the kids"
Ditto.
I saw so many work colleagues get promoted ahead of me because they "interviewed well" with the strangers (not even HR specialists, just people out for the expenses associated with promotion boards away from their normal workplace) who made the decisions in our promotion exercises, while they had shown a fraction of the competence I had shown in the job and in several extended/repeated periods of working temporarily in the higher grade and having my managers universally recommending me for promotion time after time because they knew they could rely on me.
I saw so many work colleagues get promoted ahead of me because they "interviewed well" with the strangers (not even HR specialists, just people out for the expenses associated with promotion boards away from their normal workplace) who made the decisions in our promotion exercises, while they had shown a fraction of the competence I had shown in the job and in several extended/repeated periods of working temporarily in the higher grade and having my managers universally recommending me for promotion time after time because they knew they could rely on me.