dbd33

If they know what their ambitions are at age 18 then great. If not then they should stay in the habit of learning by pursuing something of interest to them (assuming there is something vaguely academic in which they are interested).

I think it did work, for my children. One, not knowing what she wanted to do, took a liberal arts course. That provided her with improved general knowledge, a formidable vocabulary, honed debating skills and chance to live in two Provinces other than the one where she grew up (also the US though she didn't take up that opportunity). I think she gained from all of that even though she could probably have made more money plumbing.

Pizzawheel

I think degrees are available to anyone who can afford the four years.

Eddmac- My point which I suspect you're experience proves is you can make it without a degree in the UK but much much harder to get the same start in Canada.

Of course, I could have this wrong...maybe it was easier in the 80s to get that start and in the 20-teens its much much harder.

Eddmac

She could probably have made more money working at Hooters too, but I wouldn't suggest she do that either.
At the end of the day, we all (hopefully) want what's best for our children and that most certainly doesn't mean a degree for all of them. The difficulty for us parents is understanding that.

Out of curiosity, what does she do now, with her enviable skills?
I would recommend politics, if she hasn't already gone that way.

SchnookoLoly

I think the point of degrees being important to make a start is a big part of it.

I worked for a Big4, and certainly no one in junior grades would be hired without a degree - both in Canada and in the UK. For senior positions, a degree was listed as a requirement, but often 20 years of experience was also acceptable... but the candidate would have had to have been exceptional. I can say in no uncertain terms that anyone in the "lower" grades there, which I'd say equates to roughly 7-8 years of experience, no degree would guarantee no interview at all.

Worth noting, though, that any degree was acceptable for the interview. I worked in IT consulting for a Big4, and I worked with people with a wide range of degrees. A few engineers, a few physics and maths degrees, a few business, one language and arts, one history of science, one history, one geography. We were more concerned with aptitude for solving problems and thinking critically than specifically what degree was completed... but a degree was required nonetheless.

Eddmac

I think you are probably correct Pizza - it's the getting a start that is the difficult part for most youngsters today, in Canada or the UK.
Unfortunately, with everyone able to get a degree of some description, how do you differentiate yourself from all of the other ten's of thousand's with similar degrees?

As a manager in a BC engineering company, we start many technicians each year out of BCIT (without degrees) as we have found them to be far more successful than degree holders from UBC, take from that what you wish.

dbd33

A different daughter applied to Hooters. That didn't work because it was to be a part time job, rather than a career, and she could make more money as a lifeguard. The one in question works as a lawyer.

Eddmac

I assume you mean one of the big 4 auditing firms Schnooks?

I struggle to come to terms with that kind of mentality, how could an arts degree produce a person with good problem solving skills? Yet it could get you an interview at your company in a problem solving position.

I guess that I am in the minority here in not having a degree and therefore will have a different opinion of what is possible or even a requirement for personal betterment. Perhaps a degree of some sort is now a necessity, so that you can tick another box on some HR drones check list.

dbd33

I doubt that's true. I expect that, on average, every poster has a degree but, upon detailed analysis, Novo and Oink each have loads and many of us have none.

Eddmac

I didn't know that Law degrees were considered "liberal arts degrees"?

dbd33

They're not, they're more in the line of technical training.

The short of that story is that after the first degree (and a couple of years in the far north) the daughter decided she missed the challenge of taking a course and went back to school. I think that the attitude displayed, "why not move to Alaska?", "why not try going to law school?", derives in large part from having been successful on the first degree course and, to come back to the theme of earlier posts, from having been successful at living in new places in the relatively low risk circumstance of attending a university far from home.

I think the liberal arts degree taught critical thinking and what the management would call a "can do" attitude. Tuition fees well spent, in my opinion.

Eddmac

Glad it worked for her. I would happily pay for my childs university education, should he wish to go that way. But for those that cant afford to do the same, I can vouch for the fact its not a prerequisite for success.

BristolUK

I have Three Degrees.

No, wait...my mistake. That's The Pointer Sisters.

SchnookoLoly

Yes, one of the auditing firms. I was in the consulting side at one of them.

Actually, one of our best employees, who often worked for me, graduated with his degree in arts and language. He worked as a translator for a few years before then applying at my firm. From when he joined at the very bottom of the totem pole, it was obvious he was going to be one of the top performers. He was brilliant. He could think logically, he was methodical, his problem solving was top-notch - stellar, stellar performer. He got an early promotion and then consistently very high ratings. His work was always really high quality, he took on criticism really well, was always striving to improve... seriously, fantastic guy. Plus he was genuinely lovely! He was basically our poster child for why we should NOT discriminate based on what degree someone had. We instead posed various tests and such that helped us determine the candidate's aptitude for problem solving and logical thinking.

In terms of WHY they wanted a degree, though... I think it was more about ensuring a minimum level of education and I suppose general intelligence, to a point. In earlier years before we started using the aptitude tests, we did end up hiring some people who had degrees and interviewed well but who were bloody useless on actual projects. Really, really infuriating. It was actually me and 3-4 others that developed the aptitude tests, and the quality and compatibility of our new hires, particularly new graduates, went up massively.

I think a degree as well also shows other qualities about a person... capacity for learning, discipline for studying, ability to perform, etc. All our first-round interviews (I was part of that team) were "tell me about a time when..." interviews. We asked them to talk about experiences from work, from school, from extra-curriculars, and so on, plus then we took into account how they performed on the aptitude test.

/babble

Howefamily

I agree, its definately not a pre-requisite for success BUT these days its pretty much whats expected

Eddmac

For me, all of your selection criteria are excellent, bar the Degree one.
I'm sure that, like me, you know many many people with degrees that are total morons, and plenty without degrees that are brilliant. I understand that you don't want people of sub-par intelligence applying for jobs and causing time and effort in weeding them out, but for the exact same reasons you state you shouldn't discriminate against the different degree types, for a job that clearly doesn't actually need a degree, you shouldn't discriminate against people that don't have one either.