Shard

Some people doss through degrees and some take easy degrees: in short not all degrees are created equal. However a great many take decent degrees and do learn to think critically. It's not a guarantee of discipline or ability, but it is a good indicator, especially if granted by a good university.

The problem with suggesting that four years' experience is just as good is that most kids cannot get that initial experience. Some may be lucky through personal connections (or even a bottom rung job) but there simply are not that many places in the modern workplace. Today's degree requirement is the same minimum standard as yesteryear's high school diploma requirement.

JonboyE

Well, at first it seems that doing X would resolve this matter but I felt there might be deeper issues so:

a) I interviewed the parties involved and gathered copies of all the relevant documents so I had a thorough understanding of the facts.

b) I identified all the relevant issues

c) I identified all the stakeholders

d) I identified the relevant laws, company policies, standards within the industry and the ethical standards expected by our stakeholders.

e) I set aside some time to think about all of the above and to come up with as many possible solutions that I could. Even whacky ones.

f) I rated all these possible solutions against business and ethical standards and by their effects on the stakeholders.

g) I identified the optimal solution.

h) I discussed the solution with all the parties involved to gain their acceptance.

i) I monitored the outcome to ensure the solution was being implemented.

As a result of the above company profits went up by x%/staff retention went up by y%/customer complaints went down by z%.

Prepare 4 or 5 scenarios in advance. Also practice a sincere face when you say, "I have not encountered a scenario exactly as you describe but once ..."

scrubbedexpat091

For those like me who do not put things into words well, we will always fail those sorts of interviews, nothing in this world that will be the right answer in those kinds of interviews, and to date any interview I have had that utilized that type of interviewing have never hired me.

I just don't have the ability to recall things from the past and put them into the words the interviewer wants to hear,

I am sure I have made difficult decisions before, but I don't remember the process of making said decisions, which is the big issue.

I don't even bother with companies with aptitude testing anymore, as soon as they ask, I stop the application, not worth my time, I know they will never call, those tests are to weed folks like me out.

I just don't interview well at all, they are highly stressful and bring out my anxiety like nothing else, and it's hard to hide the anxiety and think clearly which doesn't help.

I have done so many interviewing classes/groups over the years, and I just think some people interview well naturally, some can learn how to, and then there some like me, who just don't have that talent.

The jobs I have gotten have always been either:

1) A group interview at a mass hiring.

2) A very laid back interview, general conversation type interview.

Westjet uses those What if and behavioral based questions/tests which has been the biggest reason, I have not worked in the airline world in Canada. Air Canada the hurdle has been lack of French.

BristolUK

What salary would you like and when can you start?

BristolUK

And there will be those who say if you can't handle that, you can't handle the job but that's completely wrong.

The interview when there's often so much at stake and you hope for a particular question that you prepared for but someone else gets lucky and gets that question instead is totally different to being able to do a job that you've had training for and experience of and that you know how to find a solution to a particular problem when it arises.

scrubbedexpat091

Yep for sure. Luckily the airline I worked for concentrated on the skills and ability to do the job being interviewed for and not just random questions.

During the interview for ramp agent for example, they would ask you the basics:

Can you pass a 10 year background and criminal record check and drug test.

Can you live up to 70 pounds alone.

Can you work any shift without restrictions.

Do you understand this is a union position and scheduling is based on seniority and that as a new employee you will not be able to get weekends and holiday's off.

Do you have a problem working in a unionized environment.

After the questions, they would take you to the training room where there was a shelving unit mocked up to mimic the belly of the plane with a few suitcases piled up and you had to prove you could lift 70 pound bags.

It was more important someone could actually do the job, then it was to do well as answering random interview questions.


I live one of the most boring lives one can imagine, I work and mainly sit at home the rest of the time if not doing errands, I don't have the life that leads to actually having answers to some of those questions.

It wasn't up to me to make decisions, those above me did the decision making, my job was to follow the directions given.

Hotels are the same, never had a position that required me to make hard decisions, pretty much everything was set in stone as to how things are down, you just follow a check list.

The times I have had what if questions are for very basic jobs like cashier and most of the questions asked were not relevant to a cashier position.

I think at the end of the day, the companies who make and sell the behavioral interview based stuff, just do a good job convincing companies they need them. (I know some companies make there own.)

The one I really hate is when they go off your resume and ask, so tell me a time.....at.... insert name of the employer from resume.....

But you left that company 5+ years ago, yeah, I am not going to recall something that happened at work that long ago, nothing happens at my jobs that would be recalled more then a few days after, certainly not long term.

I also have poor long term memory...that part of my brain doesn't work right, takes a lot to get something stored long term.

Shard

Yes, that's an unfortunate corporate fad, but it doesn't seem to be going away.

scrubbedexpat091

Seem's to be getting worse, even Wal-Mart does it now. Apply for them in Canada, and the aptitude test takes like an hour to complete.

I think they may have gotten a poor deal though as the aptitude testing doesn't seem to be working based on some of the employees they hire.

My wife worked there for 9 months, and the pay was fine (they are the highest paying retailer in town of the big box stores) as she made 12 to start and ended just under 13/hr, but the worst part was the co-workers, everyone is so miserable there that it just created a very negative environment.

Amazing how the culture of a company can destroy the employees morale so quickly. I think it all comes from the cheapness of the company at its very core, just doesn't lead to a healthy workforce.

But they pay managers well, so some just don't leave as they cant make a comparable wage elsewhere without college as Wal-Mart promotes most store managers from within and performance is more important, and of course towing the company line and finding ways to save money and cut costs.

Oink

"The universities are the coalmines of the 21st. century." - "Higher education is no longer simply an adornment to our national life--of immense value and prestige, but only to a small privileged minority. It is now a sector as important to our society and economy as the big extractive industries of the past." Tony Blair, IPPR speech.

Full text: Tony Blair's IPPR speech | Politics | The Guardian

BristolUK

Pizzawheel

This!

scrubbedexpat091

Getting the experience needed in the workplace to move up has been my biggest issue, I have work experience, but it's all entry level stuff, none of the companies I worked for would let me go up because I had no degree, so couldn't build sufficient experience outside of entry level.

Some say just go get a degree which isn't very easy, especially for non-academic inclined folks.

But I am going to take a diploma short term program that teaches specific types of office skills and technology so I am hoping that will help increase my employment prospects.

I just hope I can get a better job so I can pay off the student loans.....Last time I got socked with the loans, but couldn't afford them on my pay at the time.....this time though its not just random classes taken just to learn.

BristolUK

I don't remember what it was called but quite a few years ago something new was introduced in the UK that allowed you to gain a sort of employment based qualification that gave you something to show to a prospective employer that in theory did more than just referring to experience.

National vocation something or other. I have no idea how practical it proved.

Eddmac

Almost anyone can get a basement level job. Dont see this as your future, see this as your chance to impress. You work hard, be in early, go home late, achieve every task you are set. Take on the jobs noone else wants to do and get them done. Volunteer.
I know this all seems like terrible hard work, but thats kind of the point.

Do all this and you will get experience, promotions, increased salary etc etc.

Eddmac

I once interviewed at Pfizer Pharmaceuticals for a technical role. It was a day long procedure and involved role play, pshchological profiling, team builder games and challenges and was totally horrible.

At the end of it, at an actual interview which lasyed no more than 5 mins, I was told I had passed and was offered the job. I declined.

The look of shock on the HR persons face was priceless. When I was asked why, I told them that they hadnt contacted any of my references, they didnt ask me any questions about my previous jobs or roles and so they didnt feel my experience was of any benefit, that their psych profiling can be beaten with a google search and that their role playing process was the biggest load of nonsense I had ever had the misfortune to waste my time on. I said that if thats what the corporate culture in this company produced, I wasnt interested In working there. God forbid the day every company goes down the road of listening to "consultants" on how to recruit people.