Daedra

Oui il est vraiment "speciaux" de plus de manieres que une ! Mais je pourrais jamais esperer d'être comme luis, 2 langues est deja trop pour mon pettite cerveau! LOL!

Canada2006

Hey hey! Bury's good that way, they will try to provide documents in languages for the main minorities.

I actually find it really positive because it's very welcoming and I suspect it helps integration. It's also a great example of local authorities being flexible towards the treatment of their customers.

Urdu is, I believe and someone may correct me, the same language as Hindi but written in a different alphabet. It's spoken by the muslim community from the Indian-subcontinent.

Most towns in Greater Manchester have this attitude.

I live in town where about 50% of the residents speak French, but services are only available in Dutch due to Flemish racism. It's not a great example of a town servicing its customers. Both French and Dutch are official Belgian Languages.

Canada2006

Tu as déjà une langue de plus que 99% des britanniques et pas mal des Canadians.... je sais que les gens de west coast qui ne sont pas d'immigrants ne parle pas le français en general.

Daedra

I dont think it DOES help integration... if that was the case, then surely every African & European language would be on those signs as well... and no offense but, what a waste of sign space?! If I move to Spain, I will NOT expect all Spanish people to speak English or French, I will first study Spanish and learn how to get by, or I will contact my local Canadian embassy in Spain to have the information I need translated... I respect your viewpoints Canada2006 but I'm afraid on this point, we will differ.

I dont agree with any bashing of any minorities, but at the same time, I think EVERY country should request a level of respect to their heritage from foreigners and I do not think that is racist as I would apply this rule to any country, Canada England Nigeria or Pakistan!

Daedra

Oui mais c'est pas vraiment specialle... pres ce que tous les Quebecoise devrai connais les deux langues pour etre effectife dans leur travaille... et je suis terrible a ecrire Francaise commme tu peut deja voire LOL!

Canada2006

I agree that it's good to integrate and learn the local language etc... and of course, you cannot have all languages on signs, but when you have a large immigrant population, you can help them. It's being pragmatic.

Belgium is a special case, the Flemish really are racist. If you look in the newspaper tomorrow you'll see how the Vlaams Belag ( a far right party) has gained 30% of the vote in the local elections. It's one of the reasons we're leaving Belgium.

Daedra

I must confess I am quite ignorant when it comes to Belgium... my brother went to boarding school in Brussels there for 2 years (french schooling) but I myself have never been.

The best form of integration in my opinion is to have the migrants hear/read/speak the local dialect... heck I'm losing my french already after 3 years speaking/reading/writing English... if you don't use it, you wont learn have a need to learn it.

Maybe its considered to be polite of the country to provide signs in the largest migrant language, but other then airports/hotels and major tourist attractions (not the DWP for chrissake?!) how is that helping migrants to adapt to the new country/culture they have decided to live in?

I might add that this past elections, we recieved one of the "vote for so and so" flyers through the post box completely in Urdu, no English on it whatsoever... there is a large population of arabic/hindu immigrants in Bury but does that truely warrant isolating the English culture as a side-line contender?

God I must sound horribly biased now LOL! I think I have taken to heart the Canadian English Federalists and the Quebecoise Nationalist parties and now I'm a stubburn Anglo-francophone who wants to be proud of the country I'm in/choose to live in LOL!

Canada2006

Cultural baggage!

Everyone will have different points of view on this question depending upon their experience. I voted today in an election for two people who had written in English on their literature rather than French. I voted for them because I felt they had a more open mind than some of the others. (You have to know that in Belgium there are lists of about 20 candidates. So about 5 lists of 20 candidates... 100 candidates.)

I'm pround of the UK because it has handled its immigrants to so well, and feels so strong in its self awareness that it can communicate in Urdu as well as English. It's a sign of strength and openness.

When I was a kid, I didn't really realise that there were so many people frm Pakistan around, it was just normal. My doctor wore a sari and had a red dot between her eyes. So, perhaps I've just grown up with this. I did go though a period of thinking the Urdu thing was strange, but it didn't last long.

In France I was disgusted at some of the poor efforts to integrate of my compatriots. But they probably had their own speed and all did learn a lot of French and understood the French better than if they'd never gone.

Now I have the Flemish community that is trying to force me to learn Dutch rather than making it attractive. I hate being forced to do something so I reacted... and stopped learning Dutch.

We keep on learning and changing!

Daedra

I think I haven't expressed my point properly, sorry, was in a rush making supper when I posted my last reply.

The point is, if I go to Japan to live or to visit, I expect to have to learn enough Japanese to get around... if I go to Italy, I expect to have to learn to speak Italian.... If I go to Pakistan, I expect to have to learn to speak Urdu... Why the hell should the homeland of the English language be making allowances for any one forgien group? Some sort of belated guilt for occupying India's capital for so long? If thats the case, surely ALL of her Majesty's 'liberated' countries should be entitled to the same? Why isn't Welsh on the signs here? Surely that is more a part of the UK's national identity then Udru?!

As mentioned previously, I can't really comment on Belgium as I dont know squat about the politics... but I personally would feel welcomed if I didn't speak English & moved here and had language groups locally to learn to speak English. It's part of the process people should be undertaking in order to move to a different country, learning the local language and customs!

I certainly would not want or expect to have signs in Albanian (if I were from there for example) just because there are alot of Albanians who have moved to the same place I have in the past hundred years!!

There is no point in people moving to another country in order to reform/rehabilitate the country in to their previous way of life where they came from... in my opinion, Europeans did enough of that when 'discovering' North America and eradicating the native americans.. I would think we'd have evolved past that by now and learned a lesson from it.

dbd33

That's what's different about Canada. That's why it's not just America with healthcare. Multi-culturalism means not having to learn French or English, it means being able to live in a new country following the languages and customs of your old country.

Daedra

Not true, you can maintain your cultural identity while becoming a part of your new country's culture. No one can dictate what language you speak in your family home, thats personal and shouldn't be infringed on. The difference is if you are expecting the cultural government and heritage to adapt to your personal cultural identity/language... its no longer about your personal heritage or culture when you start infringing or imposing it on your new host country... personal becomes public and what is being asked is to sacrifice the historical culture of new country to make you feel more like your in your old country.... if you miss your old country that bad GO BACK. I would go back to Canada if I ever felt I was becoming one of those immigrants in Britain that wants everything to look/sound/speak the same as I do! Whats the bloody point of living in a new country if you just want to transform it from what it is in to what it was for you where you came from?! Just seems daft and backwards to me!

EDIT: I personally enjoy the 'little Italy/china/india' sections of towns but when it starts to become prevelant on government literature and public street signs, I think it has bypassed the stage of wanting a little bit of <Fill in foreign country name> to visit in a different country!

Cowtown

In Calgary it is common to see signs in Chinese (could be some other variation and I wouldnt know) in certain parts of town. In Banff signs are generally in Japanese. I dont remember ever seeing a sign in French. These might not be gov buildings but they are still prominent.

zigspider

Sorry, have to butt in here, this is about how bad the Uk is, and, from what I'm reading you are saying it's great! You're currently living in Belgium, and from your name 'Canada2006' I assume that's where you're heading. Why not go back to the UK? If it's job related I apologise.

Can't answer the OP, as haven't been back to the UK since 2003, but shouldn't we stick to the original question?

Jerry

Daedra

Well I feel relatively secure in the fact that as of yet.. the only two official languages that Govt signs/literature is published in Canada is French and English. I have nothing against vendors wanting to advertise to whomever may be their largest clientel as they will more then likely try not to alienate the majority of their clients.

I sound like a complete bigot now which really wasn't my intention... I am just infuriated by the lack of respect shown for countries heritage and culture and feel saddened that political correctness has dictated our lives to the point where people have to think twice about claiming to be proud of the country they come from or the country they move(d) to. It's like heritage and patriosm have become dirty words insinuating isolatic countries and some form of racist extremist.

Daedra

indeed zig, and I have to retire for bed as have an early morning & busy day ahead getting organised for my flight to Canada

Sianora, ciao, au revoir and night night!