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The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Jan 28th 2017, 4:31 am
#602
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
The rest of your post is the usual leftist fairy tale fodder but this 
:
Trump is the wrong guy for president - good messages, wrong messenger. Ultimately though he's not that right-wing. I preferred the more right-wing candidates - Cruz, Rubio etc
:Trump is the wrong guy for president - good messages, wrong messenger. Ultimately though he's not that right-wing. I preferred the more right-wing candidates - Cruz, Rubio etc
Say it ain't so, Amazulu! You practically seem infatuated with the guy. I could swear this is (political) love at first sight between the two of you. 
Jan 28th 2017, 4:38 am
#603
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
One of the best things about the election of Trump is that the opposition to the insidious, creeping islamification of the west is starting to get a voice
The PC'ers, feminazis, multicuturalists, western-haters that have enabled this trend are starting to be questioned and it looks like 2017 is going to be a good year for the right - Wilders in with a shout in Holland, Le Pen changing the dynamics in France, Pegida giving people in Germany a genuine foil to Merkel - even Hanson shaking up the status quo in Australia. Yes, most of these people are one-trick ponies and may not get into power but they are taking the debate in the right direction
The PC'ers, feminazis, multicuturalists, western-haters that have enabled this trend are starting to be questioned and it looks like 2017 is going to be a good year for the right - Wilders in with a shout in Holland, Le Pen changing the dynamics in France, Pegida giving people in Germany a genuine foil to Merkel - even Hanson shaking up the status quo in Australia. Yes, most of these people are one-trick ponies and may not get into power but they are taking the debate in the right direction
Jan 28th 2017, 6:39 am
#604
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
I don't see how you come to that conclusion
. My simplified take:
If country A imposes a 20% import tax upon apples from country B the price country B gets for it's apples remains the same. The price the population pays for those same apples in country A goes up by 20% i.e they lose out.
Now disgruntled by the high price of apples the population of country A stop buying the apples and start cropping their own. All is good until harvest time when there is no source of cheap labour to harvest said apples so top price pickers pick them and the cost blows out to 30% making apples even more expensive.
Meanwhile country B finds that country C will buy their apples for the same price as country A so decides to sell the entire stock to country C.
Country B then retaliates by closing its land border to all trucks from country A forcing country A to ship goods to all its trading partners isolated by the closed borders. Country A has to charge more so it's trading partners stop buying their goods.
Did I miss something?
. My simplified take:If country A imposes a 20% import tax upon apples from country B the price country B gets for it's apples remains the same. The price the population pays for those same apples in country A goes up by 20% i.e they lose out.
Now disgruntled by the high price of apples the population of country A stop buying the apples and start cropping their own. All is good until harvest time when there is no source of cheap labour to harvest said apples so top price pickers pick them and the cost blows out to 30% making apples even more expensive.
Meanwhile country B finds that country C will buy their apples for the same price as country A so decides to sell the entire stock to country C.
Country B then retaliates by closing its land border to all trucks from country A forcing country A to ship goods to all its trading partners isolated by the closed borders. Country A has to charge more so it's trading partners stop buying their goods.
Did I miss something?
Jan 28th 2017, 9:45 am
#605
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
A Trump like stereotyped view of Mexicans which doesn't surprise. The reality from the Executive office of the President (Office of the United States Trade Representative), not from Mexico or Guardian sources:
U.S.-Mexico Trade Facts
https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico
One can only imagine what building walls and slapping on tariffs as knee jerk reactions to enforce his prejudices is going to do to their 3rd largest trading partner?
Substitute vehicles ($74 billion), electrical machinery ($63 billion), machinery ($49 billion), mineral fuels ($14 billion), and optical and medical instruments ($12 billion) for apples. Substitute GB for country C as May just happens to be on hand looking for trade deals from Trump.
U.S.-Mexico Trade Facts
https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico
One can only imagine what building walls and slapping on tariffs as knee jerk reactions to enforce his prejudices is going to do to their 3rd largest trading partner?
Substitute vehicles ($74 billion), electrical machinery ($63 billion), machinery ($49 billion), mineral fuels ($14 billion), and optical and medical instruments ($12 billion) for apples. Substitute GB for country C as May just happens to be on hand looking for trade deals from Trump.
Last edited by OzTennis; Jan 28th 2017 at 9:53 am.
Jan 28th 2017, 10:05 am
#606
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
A Trump like stereotyped view of Mexicans which doesn't surprise. The reality from the Executive office of the President (Office of the United States Trade Representative), not from Mexico or Guardian sources:
U.S.-Mexico Trade Facts
https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico
One can only imagine what building walls and slapping on tariffs as knee jerk reactions to enforce his prejudices is going to do to their 3rd largest trading partner?
Substitute vehicles ($74 billion), electrical machinery ($63 billion), machinery ($49 billion), mineral fuels ($14 billion), and optical and medical instruments ($12 billion) for apples. Substitute GB for country C as May just happens to be on hand looking for trade deals from Trump.
U.S.-Mexico Trade Facts
https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico
One can only imagine what building walls and slapping on tariffs as knee jerk reactions to enforce his prejudices is going to do to their 3rd largest trading partner?
Substitute vehicles ($74 billion), electrical machinery ($63 billion), machinery ($49 billion), mineral fuels ($14 billion), and optical and medical instruments ($12 billion) for apples. Substitute GB for country C as May just happens to be on hand looking for trade deals from Trump.
The Wall - to keep out illegal financial immigrants and drugs.
Tariffs - to internalise US industries bringing back work for Americans.
The wall is good. We shall see on the tariffs
Jan 28th 2017, 12:30 pm
#607
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Having shot his mouth off and seen the astonished reaction of Republicans (that Americans would in fact pay for the wall) they are now backtracking and saying it was just one idea for financing the wall and not necessarily what will happen.
Last edited by OzTennis; Jan 28th 2017 at 12:37 pm.
Jan 28th 2017, 2:46 pm
#608
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,014
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
The wall is to supposedly keep out the immigrants and drugs; the higher tariffs is Trump's solution to pay for the wall - trade and border control intertwined by Trump SPORT, not two different things. Trump said the Mexicans will pay for the wall but his proposal is for American consumers to pay 20% more on imports. Presumably only Mexican Americans will buy the imported goods!
Having shot his mouth off and seen the astonished reaction of Republicans (that Americans would in fact pay for the wall) they are now backtracking and saying it was just one idea for financing the wall and not necessarily what will happen.
Having shot his mouth off and seen the astonished reaction of Republicans (that Americans would in fact pay for the wall) they are now backtracking and saying it was just one idea for financing the wall and not necessarily what will happen.
As far as tariffs. I think just an opening salvo in trying to negotiate more favorable trade deals. Mexicans need US market, whether Trump can skillfully negotiate better terms we will see.
Jan 28th 2017, 2:52 pm
#609
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 5,002
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Yes, indeed. Trump's book-title says it all about the man and his Presidency: "The Art of the Deal". The man is a highly skilled negotiator.
Jan 28th 2017, 3:29 pm
#610
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
I believe it is very hard for a rational person to be against border security. One of reasons Trumps answer many people like is that for the first time in many decades someone taking issue seriously.
As far as tariffs. I think just an opening salvo in trying to negotiate more favorable trade deals. Mexicans need US market, whether Trump can skillfully negotiate better terms we will see.
As far as tariffs. I think just an opening salvo in trying to negotiate more favorable trade deals. Mexicans need US market, whether Trump can skillfully negotiate better terms we will see.
“We Berliners know best how much suffering was caused by the division of an entire continent with barbed wire and concrete,” he said in a statement, referring to Europe’s “Iron Curtain” division.
In the early 21st century, he said, “We can’t just accept it if our historical experience is disregarded by those to whom we largely owe our freedom, the Americans.”
Pointing to the continuing division of the Korean peninsula and the island of Cyprus, the Social Democrat urged Trump “not to go down this wrong path of isolation and exclusion”.
Jan 28th 2017, 3:33 pm
#611
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Proof Donald Trump Isn't Great at Negotiating | Fortune.com
"We evaluated his wealth, his deals, and his approach to negotiation. The evidence is damning."
if Trump had simply invested his current net worth from 1982 (built atop the fortune he received from his father) in an S&P 500 index fund and made no deals, he would have $8 billion now. In other words, Trump’s deal-making over the last quarter century has actually cost him billions of dollars.
The airline he bought in 1988 for roughly $365 million closed down in 1992. The football team he bought in 1984 ended with the demise of United States Football League just two years later. His hotels and casinos have struggled to make money, declaring bankruptcy four times. Ironically, even Trump’s version of how skillfully he renegotiated loan terms with his bankers after going bankrupt has been debunked by those who were at the table.
Last edited by OzTennis; Jan 28th 2017 at 3:43 pm.
Jan 28th 2017, 7:06 pm
#612
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
The wall is to supposedly keep out the immigrants and drugs; the higher tariffs is Trump's solution to pay for the wall - trade and border control intertwined by Trump SPORT, not two different things. Trump said the Mexicans will pay for the wall but his proposal is for American consumers to pay 20% more on imports. Presumably only Mexican Americans will buy the imported goods!
Having shot his mouth off and seen the astonished reaction of Republicans (that Americans would in fact pay for the wall) they are now backtracking and saying it was just one idea for financing the wall and not necessarily what will happen.
Having shot his mouth off and seen the astonished reaction of Republicans (that Americans would in fact pay for the wall) they are now backtracking and saying it was just one idea for financing the wall and not necessarily what will happen.
Jan 28th 2017, 8:21 pm
#613
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,014
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Is building a wall a rational form of border security? The mayor of Berlin in the last 24 hours has urged Trump not to build the wall.
“We Berliners know best how much suffering was caused by the division of an entire continent with barbed wire and concrete,” he said in a statement, referring to Europe’s “Iron Curtain” division.
In the early 21st century, he said, “We can’t just accept it if our historical experience is disregarded by those to whom we largely owe our freedom, the Americans.”
Pointing to the continuing division of the Korean peninsula and the island of Cyprus, the Social Democrat urged Trump “not to go down this wrong path of isolation and exclusion”.
“We Berliners know best how much suffering was caused by the division of an entire continent with barbed wire and concrete,” he said in a statement, referring to Europe’s “Iron Curtain” division.
In the early 21st century, he said, “We can’t just accept it if our historical experience is disregarded by those to whom we largely owe our freedom, the Americans.”
Pointing to the continuing division of the Korean peninsula and the island of Cyprus, the Social Democrat urged Trump “not to go down this wrong path of isolation and exclusion”.
The Berlin Wall was to stop Germans reuniting with Germans, and as far as I know West Germans were not sending guns to criminal elements in East Germany. As far as I understand it Trump is not saying Mexicans cant come to USA, they just need to come legally.
The current situation is ridiculous. Look at effect on Mexico- poor migrants dying in the desert or otherwise taken advantage of, drugs coming across border but just as bad guns flowing south. Mexico I understand has also been strengthening its southern border. I don't understand, why shouldnt USA take measures to strengthen its border controls ?
So what are social democrats proposing, open borders ?
Last edited by morpeth; Jan 28th 2017 at 8:40 pm.
Jan 28th 2017, 8:44 pm
#614
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 5,002
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
The wall may not by itself be the most rational way to control the border, but what president the last 30 years democrat or republican has shown the resolve to control the border ? Didn't the border agents union endorse Trump ?
The Berlin Wall was to stop Germans reuniting with Germans, and as far as I know West Germans were not sending guns to criminal elements in East Germany.
The current situation is ridiculous. Look at effect on Mexico- poor migrants dying in the desert or otherwise taken advantage of, drugs coming across border but just as bad guns flowing south. Mexico I understand has also been strengthening its southern border. I don't understand, why shouldnt USA take measures to strengthen its border controls ?
So what are social democrats proposing, open borders ?
The Berlin Wall was to stop Germans reuniting with Germans, and as far as I know West Germans were not sending guns to criminal elements in East Germany.
The current situation is ridiculous. Look at effect on Mexico- poor migrants dying in the desert or otherwise taken advantage of, drugs coming across border but just as bad guns flowing south. Mexico I understand has also been strengthening its southern border. I don't understand, why shouldnt USA take measures to strengthen its border controls ?
So what are social democrats proposing, open borders ?
Jan 28th 2017, 9:59 pm
#615
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
If I were Latin America, my first reaction would be far far closer ties to Russia and China.... right up to open borders with both those countries.
China would love to develop Mexico.... if it could get it's hands on Brazil that would be a major impact on the US because it would hand the pricing power of energy and commodities over to the Far East.
This fixation with secure borders is playing right into the Far Easts hands.
China would love to develop Mexico.... if it could get it's hands on Brazil that would be a major impact on the US because it would hand the pricing power of energy and commodities over to the Far East.
This fixation with secure borders is playing right into the Far Easts hands.