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The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Jan 31st 2017, 8:23 pm
#751
Account Closed
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 0
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Ouch.
A British citizen who has visited Israel, and has evidence of it on my passport, I cannot visit Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. Meanwhile, 16 Muslim states, including Yemen, Iran, Iraq and Syria have a blanket ban on Israelis entering their countries.
Even more of an ouch
It's not so different from what Obama did when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months – that's six by the way, not three – in 2011. That's the Obama who also referenced the same seven countries identified by his successor as sources of terror.
Donald Trump's travel ban is not Nazism – it's what many Muslim countries have done to Israel
Explains pretty well why these 7 countries are on the list and not others. State sponsored terrorism anyone?
A British citizen who has visited Israel, and has evidence of it on my passport, I cannot visit Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. Meanwhile, 16 Muslim states, including Yemen, Iran, Iraq and Syria have a blanket ban on Israelis entering their countries.
Even more of an ouch
It's not so different from what Obama did when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months – that's six by the way, not three – in 2011. That's the Obama who also referenced the same seven countries identified by his successor as sources of terror.
Donald Trump's travel ban is not Nazism – it's what many Muslim countries have done to Israel
Explains pretty well why these 7 countries are on the list and not others. State sponsored terrorism anyone?
Jan 31st 2017, 8:52 pm
#752
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
That's the left for you. Hypocrisy to the core. Obama did some really dodgy things, but the left let it slide.
Jan 31st 2017, 8:56 pm
#753
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,503
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
And they didn't.
Huff Post lays out pretty clearly how the Bill referred to went down:
"Much of the debate over the Republican primaries has centered on Donald Trump’s racist statements and xenophobic political platform. While Democrats and Republicans alike have condemned Trump’s most recent ‘proposal’ to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. as unconstitutional and un-American, this hateful rhetoric has manifested itself in a profoundly discriminatory policy. The Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (henceforth referred to as H.R. 158) effectively renders dual citizens and those who have traveled to Iran, Iraq, Sudan, and Syria second-class citizens by creating a two-tiered system of citizenship. Since 1986, the Visa Waiver Program has enabled U.S. citizens to travel to 38 countries, primarily located in Europe, without a visa.
This troubling legislation follows a season of increasingly dogmatic and incendiary statements from American politicians. The Republican debates have morphed into outlandish theatrics, with presidential hopefuls competing to prove who can come up with the most exclusionary policies. Xenophobia has become fashionable through campaigns to refuse resettlement of vulnerable Syrian refugees (who were already subject to thorough and prolonged security screenings), and culminating in Trump’s suggestions to create a national registry to monitor American Muslims and prohibit Muslims from entering the U.S."
Capitalizing on widespread anxiety and fear following the Paris terrorist attacks and the San Bernardino shooting, Tea Party supporter Congresswoman Candice Miller slid the H.R. 158 rider into the must-pass budget bill, the Omnibus Appropriations Bill 2015. Despite widespread public denunciations of Trump’s hate speech by both Democrats and Republicans, policymakers from across the political spectrum voted in favor of the discriminatory bill. Although more than 200 non-governmental organizations - including the American Civil Liberty Union, the Leadership Conference, and the National Iranian American Council - raised numerous objections to the ways H.R. 158 curtails the most basic of rights, this bill was passed almost unanimously in the House and signed into law by President Obama on December 16. While the media heralded the relatively painless passage of the Omnibus Appropriations Bill, coverage of H.R. 158 remains conspicuously absent.
It's all worth a read.
When Rhetoric Becomes Reality: Changes to Visa Waiver Program Create Second-Class Citizens | The Huffington Post
Jan 31st 2017, 9:22 pm
#754
Account Closed
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 0
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
No they wouldn't have been defending it.
And they didn't.
Huff Post lays out pretty clearly how the Bill referred to went down:
"Much of the debate over the Republican primaries has centered on Donald Trump’s racist statements and xenophobic political platform. While Democrats and Republicans alike have condemned Trump’s most recent ‘proposal’ to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. as unconstitutional and un-American, this hateful rhetoric has manifested itself in a profoundly discriminatory policy. The Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (henceforth referred to as H.R. 158) effectively renders dual citizens and those who have traveled to Iran, Iraq, Sudan, and Syria second-class citizens by creating a two-tiered system of citizenship. Since 1986, the Visa Waiver Program has enabled U.S. citizens to travel to 38 countries, primarily located in Europe, without a visa.
This troubling legislation follows a season of increasingly dogmatic and incendiary statements from American politicians. The Republican debates have morphed into outlandish theatrics, with presidential hopefuls competing to prove who can come up with the most exclusionary policies. Xenophobia has become fashionable through campaigns to refuse resettlement of vulnerable Syrian refugees (who were already subject to thorough and prolonged security screenings), and culminating in Trump’s suggestions to create a national registry to monitor American Muslims and prohibit Muslims from entering the U.S."
Capitalizing on widespread anxiety and fear following the Paris terrorist attacks and the San Bernardino shooting, Tea Party supporter Congresswoman Candice Miller slid the H.R. 158 rider into the must-pass budget bill, the Omnibus Appropriations Bill 2015. Despite widespread public denunciations of Trump’s hate speech by both Democrats and Republicans, policymakers from across the political spectrum voted in favor of the discriminatory bill. Although more than 200 non-governmental organizations - including the American Civil Liberty Union, the Leadership Conference, and the National Iranian American Council - raised numerous objections to the ways H.R. 158 curtails the most basic of rights, this bill was passed almost unanimously in the House and signed into law by President Obama on December 16. While the media heralded the relatively painless passage of the Omnibus Appropriations Bill, coverage of H.R. 158 remains conspicuously absent.
It's all worth a read.
When Rhetoric Becomes Reality: Changes to Visa Waiver Program Create Second-Class Citizens | The Huffington Post
And they didn't.
Huff Post lays out pretty clearly how the Bill referred to went down:
"Much of the debate over the Republican primaries has centered on Donald Trump’s racist statements and xenophobic political platform. While Democrats and Republicans alike have condemned Trump’s most recent ‘proposal’ to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. as unconstitutional and un-American, this hateful rhetoric has manifested itself in a profoundly discriminatory policy. The Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (henceforth referred to as H.R. 158) effectively renders dual citizens and those who have traveled to Iran, Iraq, Sudan, and Syria second-class citizens by creating a two-tiered system of citizenship. Since 1986, the Visa Waiver Program has enabled U.S. citizens to travel to 38 countries, primarily located in Europe, without a visa.
This troubling legislation follows a season of increasingly dogmatic and incendiary statements from American politicians. The Republican debates have morphed into outlandish theatrics, with presidential hopefuls competing to prove who can come up with the most exclusionary policies. Xenophobia has become fashionable through campaigns to refuse resettlement of vulnerable Syrian refugees (who were already subject to thorough and prolonged security screenings), and culminating in Trump’s suggestions to create a national registry to monitor American Muslims and prohibit Muslims from entering the U.S."
Capitalizing on widespread anxiety and fear following the Paris terrorist attacks and the San Bernardino shooting, Tea Party supporter Congresswoman Candice Miller slid the H.R. 158 rider into the must-pass budget bill, the Omnibus Appropriations Bill 2015. Despite widespread public denunciations of Trump’s hate speech by both Democrats and Republicans, policymakers from across the political spectrum voted in favor of the discriminatory bill. Although more than 200 non-governmental organizations - including the American Civil Liberty Union, the Leadership Conference, and the National Iranian American Council - raised numerous objections to the ways H.R. 158 curtails the most basic of rights, this bill was passed almost unanimously in the House and signed into law by President Obama on December 16. While the media heralded the relatively painless passage of the Omnibus Appropriations Bill, coverage of H.R. 158 remains conspicuously absent.
It's all worth a read.
When Rhetoric Becomes Reality: Changes to Visa Waiver Program Create Second-Class Citizens | The Huffington Post
This one makes for more interesting reading, and makes Obamah look like a distinctly shady character, a smiling assassin if you will. Droning civilians, and US citizens without trial, redefining what constitutes torture. He gave himself (as did Bush) more executive powers which have been passed on to the orange one. In effect he has enabled Trump to exec his way into everyone's bad books. I don't ever recall this level of bile being aimed at him though.
Jan 31st 2017, 10:20 pm
#755
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
No they wouldn't have been defending it.
And they didn't.
Huff Post lays out pretty clearly how the Bill referred to went down:
"Much of the debate over the Republican primaries has centered on Donald Trump’s racist statements and xenophobic political platform. While Democrats and Republicans alike have condemned Trump’s most recent ‘proposal’ to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. as unconstitutional and un-American, this hateful rhetoric has manifested itself in a profoundly discriminatory policy. The Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (henceforth referred to as H.R. 158) effectively renders dual citizens and those who have traveled to Iran, Iraq, Sudan, and Syria second-class citizens by creating a two-tiered system of citizenship. Since 1986, the Visa Waiver Program has enabled U.S. citizens to travel to 38 countries, primarily located in Europe, without a visa.
This troubling legislation follows a season of increasingly dogmatic and incendiary statements from American politicians. The Republican debates have morphed into outlandish theatrics, with presidential hopefuls competing to prove who can come up with the most exclusionary policies. Xenophobia has become fashionable through campaigns to refuse resettlement of vulnerable Syrian refugees (who were already subject to thorough and prolonged security screenings), and culminating in Trump’s suggestions to create a national registry to monitor American Muslims and prohibit Muslims from entering the U.S."
Capitalizing on widespread anxiety and fear following the Paris terrorist attacks and the San Bernardino shooting, Tea Party supporter Congresswoman Candice Miller slid the H.R. 158 rider into the must-pass budget bill, the Omnibus Appropriations Bill 2015. Despite widespread public denunciations of Trump’s hate speech by both Democrats and Republicans, policymakers from across the political spectrum voted in favor of the discriminatory bill. Although more than 200 non-governmental organizations - including the American Civil Liberty Union, the Leadership Conference, and the National Iranian American Council - raised numerous objections to the ways H.R. 158 curtails the most basic of rights, this bill was passed almost unanimously in the House and signed into law by President Obama on December 16. While the media heralded the relatively painless passage of the Omnibus Appropriations Bill, coverage of H.R. 158 remains conspicuously absent.
It's all worth a read.
When Rhetoric Becomes Reality: Changes to Visa Waiver Program Create Second-Class Citizens | The Huffington Post
And they didn't.
Huff Post lays out pretty clearly how the Bill referred to went down:
"Much of the debate over the Republican primaries has centered on Donald Trump’s racist statements and xenophobic political platform. While Democrats and Republicans alike have condemned Trump’s most recent ‘proposal’ to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. as unconstitutional and un-American, this hateful rhetoric has manifested itself in a profoundly discriminatory policy. The Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (henceforth referred to as H.R. 158) effectively renders dual citizens and those who have traveled to Iran, Iraq, Sudan, and Syria second-class citizens by creating a two-tiered system of citizenship. Since 1986, the Visa Waiver Program has enabled U.S. citizens to travel to 38 countries, primarily located in Europe, without a visa.
This troubling legislation follows a season of increasingly dogmatic and incendiary statements from American politicians. The Republican debates have morphed into outlandish theatrics, with presidential hopefuls competing to prove who can come up with the most exclusionary policies. Xenophobia has become fashionable through campaigns to refuse resettlement of vulnerable Syrian refugees (who were already subject to thorough and prolonged security screenings), and culminating in Trump’s suggestions to create a national registry to monitor American Muslims and prohibit Muslims from entering the U.S."
Capitalizing on widespread anxiety and fear following the Paris terrorist attacks and the San Bernardino shooting, Tea Party supporter Congresswoman Candice Miller slid the H.R. 158 rider into the must-pass budget bill, the Omnibus Appropriations Bill 2015. Despite widespread public denunciations of Trump’s hate speech by both Democrats and Republicans, policymakers from across the political spectrum voted in favor of the discriminatory bill. Although more than 200 non-governmental organizations - including the American Civil Liberty Union, the Leadership Conference, and the National Iranian American Council - raised numerous objections to the ways H.R. 158 curtails the most basic of rights, this bill was passed almost unanimously in the House and signed into law by President Obama on December 16. While the media heralded the relatively painless passage of the Omnibus Appropriations Bill, coverage of H.R. 158 remains conspicuously absent.
It's all worth a read.
When Rhetoric Becomes Reality: Changes to Visa Waiver Program Create Second-Class Citizens | The Huffington Post
Feb 1st 2017, 1:47 am
#756
(It's not my real name)
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ilukapool. WA
Posts: 12,467
Feb 1st 2017, 2:06 am
#758
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,503
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
You reckon HuffPo made it up? Ok. Here is the actual bill in the records of Congress, where you can see the Tea Party rep who sponsored it. Or do you think Congress falsified the record?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...house-bill/158
Then, here is a BBC link documenting the complaints against it from all the same people mentioned by HuffPo.
One excerpt:
"And the ACLU, one of the leading civil rights organisations in the country, cautioned Congress "to avoid passing legislation that would broadly scapegoat groups based on nationality, and would fan the flames of discriminatory exclusion, both here and abroad."
Iranians upset by potential changes to US visa waivers - BBC News
Of course it's always possible that both Congress and the Beeb fabricated this entirely I suppose. Or perhaps you lot are just wrong. Or don't want certain things to be true because they don't fit your chosen position. I wonder which is the most likely explanation?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...house-bill/158
Then, here is a BBC link documenting the complaints against it from all the same people mentioned by HuffPo.
One excerpt:
"And the ACLU, one of the leading civil rights organisations in the country, cautioned Congress "to avoid passing legislation that would broadly scapegoat groups based on nationality, and would fan the flames of discriminatory exclusion, both here and abroad."
Iranians upset by potential changes to US visa waivers - BBC News
Of course it's always possible that both Congress and the Beeb fabricated this entirely I suppose. Or perhaps you lot are just wrong. Or don't want certain things to be true because they don't fit your chosen position. I wonder which is the most likely explanation?
Feb 1st 2017, 6:58 am
#759
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
One could just as well say that Israel is a Jewish state and therefore hates Muslims. That's your way of thinking, right?
You're living in la-la land here. Israel is a religious state whose founders were terrorists (they even committed acts of terror against the UK or attacked Americans like the assault on the USS Liberty) and who are run by similar people today. Extremists are in power, they are exempt from military duty (instead sending everyone else in, including forcing WOMEN to fight), and they are pushing for war and instability across the region, stealing other people's land, etc.
Radical anything is a problem, including radical Judaism which regards other people as non-human, which is why you had the FBI even arresting a bunch of rabbis in the US who were into the organ trade. For them they were simply trading in animal parts because that's what radicalisation has done to their beliefs.
Similarly, Islam is not a problem but radical Islam is. But the real problem is people like Trump acting against all Muslims in general, which is exactly what the radicals want. Just like GWB going after a secular leader in Iraq played right into the hands of extremists.
Of course a 2-bit monkey like Trump doesn't even know that he's hurting America here and doing everything the extremists could have hoped for.
You're living in la-la land here. Israel is a religious state whose founders were terrorists (they even committed acts of terror against the UK or attacked Americans like the assault on the USS Liberty) and who are run by similar people today. Extremists are in power, they are exempt from military duty (instead sending everyone else in, including forcing WOMEN to fight), and they are pushing for war and instability across the region, stealing other people's land, etc.
Radical anything is a problem, including radical Judaism which regards other people as non-human, which is why you had the FBI even arresting a bunch of rabbis in the US who were into the organ trade. For them they were simply trading in animal parts because that's what radicalisation has done to their beliefs.
Similarly, Islam is not a problem but radical Islam is. But the real problem is people like Trump acting against all Muslims in general, which is exactly what the radicals want. Just like GWB going after a secular leader in Iraq played right into the hands of extremists.
Of course a 2-bit monkey like Trump doesn't even know that he's hurting America here and doing everything the extremists could have hoped for.
Israel is the only democracy in its region - all the nations surrounding it are intolerant woman/gay/Jew/Christian muslim dictatorships. I agree that the people who founded Israel were, somewhat hardcore but considering what they'd just been through (something that was cheered on by the majority of Arabs in the ME), kind of understandable. Britain had made a total mess of the mandate anyway
Most countries do bad shit somewhere along the line - just look at some of the stuff the UK has pulled (I was reading about the opium wars the other day....... - in recent times look what the UK did to the people of Diego Garcia)
All radical ideologies are bad but radical islam is the threat of our time - anything else is just SJW hand-wringing. Radical islam represents mainstream islam whether they like it or not. Much of the radical shit that the west faces comes from the 7 countries that Trump has announced - a lot of it is state sponsored terrorism
Maybe this is an own goal for the US - time will tell. Personally, I reckon he should have closely monitored these countries and anything that even faintly whiffs of radicalism gets a massive, over the top drone strike. Kill the people around the assholes (collateral) and that will dissuade them from becoming assholes. Simple
Feb 1st 2017, 7:21 am
#760
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
You reckon HuffPo made it up? Ok. Here is the actual bill in the records of Congress, where you can see the Tea Party rep who sponsored it. Or do you think Congress falsified the record?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...house-bill/158
Then, here is a BBC link documenting the complaints against it from all the same people mentioned by HuffPo.
One excerpt:
"And the ACLU, one of the leading civil rights organisations in the country, cautioned Congress "to avoid passing legislation that would broadly scapegoat groups based on nationality, and would fan the flames of discriminatory exclusion, both here and abroad."
Iranians upset by potential changes to US visa waivers - BBC News
Of course it's always possible that both Congress and the Beeb fabricated this entirely I suppose. Or perhaps you lot are just wrong. Or don't want certain things to be true because they don't fit your chosen position. I wonder which is the most likely explanation?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...house-bill/158
Then, here is a BBC link documenting the complaints against it from all the same people mentioned by HuffPo.
One excerpt:
"And the ACLU, one of the leading civil rights organisations in the country, cautioned Congress "to avoid passing legislation that would broadly scapegoat groups based on nationality, and would fan the flames of discriminatory exclusion, both here and abroad."
Iranians upset by potential changes to US visa waivers - BBC News
Of course it's always possible that both Congress and the Beeb fabricated this entirely I suppose. Or perhaps you lot are just wrong. Or don't want certain things to be true because they don't fit your chosen position. I wonder which is the most likely explanation?
Feb 1st 2017, 7:22 am
#761
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Dress up what. You are twisting the facts. That's what you lefties like to do. See Astera's twist on Israel in this thread and Brisbane / Gold Coast in others.
Morpeth has a pretty good wrap up of the situation. I have no need to reiterate that. Just read it and weep.
Let me ask you this. Does the ban of the 7 countries include non muslims? Yes it does. Keep trying. Do some better research next time.
Morpeth has a pretty good wrap up of the situation. I have no need to reiterate that. Just read it and weep.
Let me ask you this. Does the ban of the 7 countries include non muslims? Yes it does. Keep trying. Do some better research next time.
As the Professor of Political Studies at the University of Virginia said on the news last night - 'Trump is already the most autocratic leader/President since (apologies to his British audience) George III. He also said that Trump is only trying to appeal to the just under 50% who voted for him and in no way is trying to embrace those who didn't. It's going to be a very long 4 years'.
Feb 1st 2017, 7:39 am
#762
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Yeah, yeah, dangerously left wing ....
Feb 1st 2017, 7:55 am
#763
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
I've just read your general rants about lefties etc and Obama doing some 'dodgy things'. Can't you see that a lot of people think Trump is doing some 'dodgy things'? (no, because anything he does is fine by you probably).
As the Professor of Political Studies at the University of Virginia said on the news last night - 'Trump is already the most autocratic leader/President since (apologies to his British audience) George III. He also said that Trump is only trying to appeal to the just under 50% who voted for him and in no way is trying to embrace those who didn't. It's going to be a very long 4 years'.
As the Professor of Political Studies at the University of Virginia said on the news last night - 'Trump is already the most autocratic leader/President since (apologies to his British audience) George III. He also said that Trump is only trying to appeal to the just under 50% who voted for him and in no way is trying to embrace those who didn't. It's going to be a very long 4 years'.
Feb 1st 2017, 8:01 am
#764
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Feb 1st 2017, 8:11 am
#765
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
Yep. And the other left wing shit trolling the internet playing with small minds.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...5WGGSxsSH4xlgB
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...5WGGSxsSH4xlgB
Remember, there ARE no left wing sources in the US. They are all from centre-right to extreme right wing. It's all down to the Overton window and the loony fringe dragging it progressively to the far right since Reagan.