Save lives

And

Adoption is a loving abortion

A good Idea on paper, but the reality will just mean later terminations due to waiting lists.

Agree with kelli28, compulsory counselling would delay the process. In the case of pregnant women who discover abnormalities in their foetus that are only picked up at 20 weeks, another delay to their decision would be dreadful.

Quoting from the 2nd website:As usual, this is describing adoption from the viewpoint of the adults - the birth parent(s) and the adoptive parent(s) - and how it's beneficial for them. What about what is best for the child? There is pain in adoption too, potentially for all 3 parties.

There may be a few women who use abortion as birth control but the majority don't.
I have counselled several women who had terminations following abuse - it was absolutely horrific for them.
If his/her opinion means tarring everyone with the same brush then I disagree....strongly


FWIW - my own opinion is that there should be very tight controls around it - but it should definitely be available, medically, for those in genuine need.

It is like seeing any operation as positive. No one wants to go through it unless needed. What is an easy abortion? Sounds like the Easyjet of the termination world.

Too true. I can't begin to imagine what an adopted child/adult goes through when finding out they have been adopted. I think adoption is an amazing thing to do as a parent and for a child but there will always be pain involved for all parties: birth parents, adoptive parents, and most of all child.

I definitely agree with you Kapri. Of all the women I know who had abortions, most had them for therapeutic reasons (profoundly disabled baby with almost no chance of survival), or failed contraception. They either desperatly wanted the child but were very unlucky, or they didn't want a child and had been careful but the contraceptive method failed them.

As an aside, for you guys who believe that abortion is wrong/murder, do hold the same belief for contraception?

Again, I don't agree with using abortion as systematic contraception, but what is the difference between using the morning after pill and the 'normal' contraceptive pill or a condom? You're still preventing a life to be created... Morning after pill should be widely available (say on prescription from doctor/nurse/family planning) and abortion as a 'surgical' procedure should certainly be coupled with a doctor's visit and maybe a chat with a counsellor.



No such a thing as an easy abortion, ever... At least not for the people I know.
Any system is open to abuse, but does that mean it's a bad system? A small minority of people cheat Centrelink, does that mean we take away all benefits from all people?

People (in general) do make me laugh about suggesting adoption - I worked with a girl many years ago who gave up her child for adoption and the slating she got for it was astounding, although she was rail roaded into it by her Mum so I should imagine mentally she is still paying for it.

How many of you would judge another woman for 'giving up her child' because I bet some of you would.

Abortion comes with judgement from people not in your shoes, adoption also comes with that judgement and then there is the concern that 18 years down the line, say if a woman gave up a baby in circumstances of rape and never wanted to hear or see the child again, there is a high chance of the kid knocking on her door with accusations and feelings of abandonment.

I would say adoption is a bloody hard route to take.

But I cannot understand anyone that disagrees with abortion in cases of rape, putting the rights of an unborn child above the mother. Being raped is bad enough but being forced to carry the child against her will, the product of a violent sexual attack is unthinkable. That for some women, could be seen as prolonging the whole recovery process - forever because of fear of being 'found' by the child in later life.

Our bodies = our choice and yes it may be uncomfortable for many but it is a fact of life.

These days in Qld at least adoption doesn't really happen. Child Services take about 10 years to clear a prospective couple wanting to adopt a child. There are less than 10 adoptions a year in Qld.

Also, abortion reduces crime. Go read Freakonomics.

They are really good books

If this is true it is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

I agree. I was trying to coax out of the poster what they meant by an easy abortion.

To clarify your pro-abortion nit picking of my words, I'll respond - though the two links that I posted yesterday should have given to a flavour of what I believe. Perhaps you are looking to "coax" me out hoping that I'll say something which you can misconstrue and go on the attack about? What I find incredible is finding myself having to justify my support for maintaining/restoring a basic value that should be built into all of us - to value and nurture our offspring.

By "easy abortion" I mean easy to arrange. Counselling needs to come as a pre-requisite and detailing other options to the mother-to-be to try and save the tiny life. I realise that many feel that the sooner the final decision is made the better but for whose real benefit is that urgency? Does the unborn baby not have any rights? And what is nine months of carrying and giving birth to a child if it preserves life and at the same time keeps our humanity intact?

Yes, the mothers's mental and medical well being is important as are chronically deformed babies and those poor women who find themselves pregnant after a rape attack so there are exceptions. But contraception is the way to go and if that fails then non-barbaric avenues and a cooling off period before taking extreme measures are what's needed.

Like some posters here I too know women who have had an abortion and in one case the woman who took that decision is still haunted by it - nearly 30 years after having it done. Someone close to me has counselled dozens of women considering abortion and the success rate (decision to keep/adopt out) is very high.

Yes there is often an emotional overhead to adopting out but life itself has emotional overheads too. A good BE case to refer to is the one experienced by a poster who is no longer posting on BE these days: Livinginreality. I take my hat off to that woman for her selfless approach and unflinching love for the child that she adopted out. Her particular story had a warm and happy ending. She spoke about it a lot in her later posts. Maybe you will want to go and have a good read of her personal experience?

what's really sad is that this couple have been made to reveal their names during a painful court case, where they've not even been found guilty as yet - but there's no protecting their privacy http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8105090

Yes these bastards who starved and harmed their kids, their names are protected when the kids have prolly changed their names anyway http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8105187

wharped old world

Your post was ambiguous and implied women are taking an easy way through termination.

My position is not pro-abortion, it is about avoiding the inevitable if abortion is banned. My position values life and dignity and that termination is needed and not immoral. Pro abortion implies some kind of screw and abort lifestyle choice. Counselling should be available but it should be a choice. Abbott wanted women to go to the Catholic Church for counseling.

Most people use abortion because they are not ready for parenthood due to youth or financial reasons. Later on they become excellent mothers who are caring and nurturing.

These days society is much more pragmatic about termination and not in a hypocritical denial that plagues countries where abortion is banned but carries on anyway. No one wants the return of backstreet butchers and women dying inhumanely.