scottishcelts

My thoughts exactly.

TiddlyPom

I feel for your neighbour.

If she's single and has no money, just because she's in a house doesn't mean she's wealthy. Also forcing her to sell her home because you want a fence would be awful. No magistrate would support that!
If you really want the fence done, then you'll have to do it yourself. Forcing a single low income mother to court to prove her finances would be embarrassing for you I suspect... and she can probably adequately prove it given what you say here.
Not everyone has ideal circumstances. I've been there... single mother, three kids...single parent benefit. Doesn't allow you to live in any sort of luxury and living from week to week ... Asking for $2k is like asking for the moon. Not going to happen.

TiddlyPom

I think that's not for you to say or judge or even contemplate. It's really none of your business, is it? And you have NO idea of her circumstances. I'm sure you wouldn't say that to her face would you? 'I say, I see you're poor. You should really move to a cheaper area'...

scottishcelts

Tried to send you karma and screwed up (prolly got two words )

I think TP has hit the nail on the head with these comments. If you want the fence (and can well afford it) then put it up yourself.

DadAgain

Well actually if her poverty is stopping her from paying her part of the necesary repairs to our shared property is IS my business! If she (or those close to her) can find the cash to properly maintain her property then they ought to do it - I am NOT obliged to pay for her stuff simply because she's having a rough life.

I cant say ANYTHING to her face since she doesnt even have the decency to show it. Burying her head in the sand and refusing to even talk about things is just maddening.

I'd be happy to come to some arrangement like - I'll pay for materials and she can work out how to organise labour. But since she refuses to engage in normal discourse to solve the problem* I may be forced to follow the official channels to get the situation resolved. I'd rather not - but she's not giving me any room to play with is she?

I can see she might be in a world of hurt right now - but her childish attitude is not doing her any favours.

I'll be on the phone to council tomorrow to confirm exactly what the regulations are and get something in writing about the retaining wall, and I'll start keeping a diary of all communication on the subject. If she talks to me before its gets all 'legal' then we might be able to sort something out, but if she continues to bury her head in the sand I'll see her in court.








*(and it *is* a problem - we cant use our hills hoist to hang laundry for example as the fence is leaning over so much any clothes would get caught on the fence and ripped - Our dog keeps ending up in her yard because the fence leans so far over she can *step* over the fence - and sooner or later its going to collapse completely potentially hurting someone or inflicting further damage to my house (fence post through a window wouldnt be very nice. - Furthermore - if the retaining wall drops any further then her house will start suffering severe subsidence and may fall down.)

fish.01

It can cause disputes...you might know this but I think the rule is the fence should be maintained to the style of fence common in the area. So if one party wants a 6 foot wooden fence and the other wants chicken wire it depends what the usual fence is in the local area. If chicken wire is normal then the 50/50 is shared on the wire fence and the extra cost falls to the neighbour who wants the wooden one. Bet the council must make quite a few ruling on what is the typical fence in the area.

As MP said I think boundary retaining walls have different rules as the cost "might" be born by the people who needed to cut and retain to produce a flat block.

Laights

I suspect you will end up seeing her in court and dont think that you will automatically win, I have known cases like this going to court and loosing because the other party has no money to pay their half share towards the fence.

TiddlyPom

That's true, but she doesn't want the fence, you do.

Perhaps she's deeply embarrassed about her poverty. It's not very nice to have to talk to complete strangers about how much money you haven't got.

How is she going to organise labour with no money?

I would spend $100 before you 'see her in court' with a good solicitor because you may well end up with egg on your face.
Court also takes months...and months.

I'd be repairing what's there or replacing. If your dog keeps ending up in her garden, then that's your responsibility to keep your dog safe. Just repair it.

If her house falls down, that's her problem.

DadAgain

Yeah - no worries on the fence type - 6ft wooden palings is definately the norm around here.

As far as cut/fill and retaining wall is concerned - thats the on.ly area where I need to gain clarity. Looking at my house plans its clear the area in question was both CUT (on my side) and FILL (her side) so that suggests to me that the responsibility should be shared - but I will get council verification on that. The people over the road (mirror image) had theirs checked and council declared the retaining wall was owned by the uphill property which surprised me, so if theres any consistency it may even turn out that the wall is all HER responsibility!!! (In which case I'm guessing she's 'legaly' up for about $3K of the $4k job! )



Really? Thats screwed up.... Since when has poverty been defence against the law? "Sorry officer I know I was doing 180kmh - but I cant afford a fine today - how about letting me off with a warning?" <--- NOT going to happen!

Either way - its hard to see what I end up losing, I have a choice:
1) Voluntarily pay for HER legal responsibilities, despite her lack of co-operation - or
2) Take the matter through the appropriate channels and EITHER force her to pay up or fail and end up having to pay anyway. The court in question is (I believe) dirt cheap and 'lawyer free' - so if for some reason having the law on my side is overridden by her poverty (which seems completely f#@king insane) then I end up no worse off than I was in option 1).

Either way you're right theres a fair bit of checking and due diligence to be done before it gets to that stage!

Friends, family, etc etc - I already offered to help her chop down her trees (which she said she hated and wanted rid of) about 18 months ago when we last discussed the situation - So she knows I'm happy to throw a chainsaw,and a few weekends of my (and my friends and relatives) time into the mix.

..and as for repairing - seriously its beyond that now. Its a 'dead' fence. I can fill holes temporarily to stop the dog wandering but nobody should be under any illusions theres no 'fixing' going on.

TiddlyPom

Ok, just for a second imagine you get to court. It will be a situation where you'll probably be expected to mediate beforehand.
If that's not part of it or you both can't reach agreement, the magistrate will make a decision.

Whilst she will be expected to provide evidence of her earnings, so will you.

There may be a chance you could get a $10 -20 a week payment or so from her... perhaps.
Poverty is an excuse. If she doesn't have the money, then she can't pay. It really IS that simple.
Your belief that you can 'force' her to pay is misguided. She could go bankrupt if you push it and then you'll get nothing.

As for talking to her, you sound pretty pissed off and I can't help thinking that your attitude is probably quite threatening to her. You don't know her circumstances... her ex could have beaten her or perhaps she's just a skanky ho.... who knows.
Either way, if you don't change your tack, she'll not talk to you full stop. Why not ask your wife to chat with her, or perhaps talk to the mother in a nice calm, non threatening way and explain what you'll have to do if no-one talks to you. Basically you'll need dispute resolution if you carry on like this and I suspect you're already on the losing side...

If you go the court route, you end up with pissed off alienated neighbours... and who knows what your other neighbours will think of you dragging a single mother to court to satisfy your fencing issues?

Burbage

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LE...ividFenA53.pdf

Neighbours are jointly responsible for the fence, not the retaining wall.

DadAgain

Yeah far as I can see it clear that the fence is a shared responsibility - the wall is (excuse the ridiculous language) - 'up in the air' a bit!.

Are you suggesting that a retaining wall can NEVER be shared? and therefore that portion of the job is either all mine, or all her responsibility? - Or are you merely pointing out that there is no 'general rule' on this issue?

Either way Brisbane City Council should be able to tell me what the go is with the wall....

hey - if its HER wall - does that mean I am unable to compel her to fix it? (Its quite clear I *can* legally compel her to participate in fixing the fence).. Do I have to let it collapse completely and then try and sue her for damage to my half of the fence that sits upon it?...

weird stuff this trivial property minutia law isnt it?

Wendy

Just a quick google look brought up this:

http://www.brisbanebuildingandpest.c...asp?pageid=132

Who's Responsibility Is It?

Unfortunately, retaining walls aren't always needed on just a single property. From time to time, the situation requires that a retaining wall be built between two different properties. In such a scenario, who is responsible for having it built? This must be decided between the two parties; if an agreement can't be reached, then the courts may need to get involved. Ideally, though, you'll be able to work something out with your neighbour.

If a retaining wall is needed on the boundary of a property, it can sometimes be built just on one side of the boundary line. In fact, this is the ideal solution - the neighbour who actually requires the retaining wall should have it built on their side of the line. Occasionally, two neighbours may decide to go in on a retaining wall together. In that case, the most fair way to handle it is by having the retaining wall straddle both properties. In terms of costs, the neighbours should try to split them as equitably as possible.

Another link:


http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/legal...aspx#Retaining walls

Retaining walls
I need to get some help with my rights concerning retaining walls, what should I do?
The law about retaining walls is complex. You should get private legal advice.

Don't think it's as cut and dry as you may think.

itigo

UUuummmmm yes it does! I'm sure Laights will back me up, trying to find the local paper article. There have been a few cases in Geelong in the last year where exactly that has happened...............

Off to hunt for proof!

itigo

Here, this is one I was thinking of..........

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/...1371_news.html

And then this, same lady........... http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/...0941_news.html