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Neighbours - Fencing drama

Neighbours - Fencing drama

Old Sep 17th 2011, 2:06 am
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Default Neighbours - Fencing drama

For a number of years now the fence and 1m retaining wall between our neighbours and us has gradually listed towards us. We've discussed it a number of times with the neighbour who is a single mum and clearly reluctant to spend any money.

Recently the lean has become worse (approaching 45 degrees at our back corner) and its clear that the timber retaining wall is rotten through, termite infested and quite simply not retaining.

Simple analysis of the land suggests to me that the retaining wall is shared - if it werent there, our house would be inundated with earth, and her house would subside and collapse.

Adding further to the complications there are troublesome goldencane palms on her side pushing the fence towards our house.

I've tried for the last 2 weeks to get our neighbours attention and discuss it - but she never answers her door, her landline (the only number I have) has been disconnected and she seems to be evasive.

I'm going to get a couple of quotes for the replacement of wall and fence, but its not going to be trivial. My guess is that we're looking at $4k ish for the job - and thats assuming we demolish the trees ourselves.

Today our neighbour disappeared again before I got a chance to talk to her - but her mother did show up (to look after the kids). I did manage to get her attention briefly and suggested that we really need to do something about the situation, but she poo-poo'd the whole idea and said, "Who needs a fence?" and "My daughter can barely afford to put food on the table - theres no point having a fence if you cant eat".

Now - I'm a compassionate guy, and can sympathise - but WTF? I have no idea what to do here. I simply dont have the expertise or time to do the job myself. She's clearly not going to fork up for her 50% of the job costs and I dont really want to be that guy that takes their neighbours to court - but if we do nothing then pretty soon I'm going to be able to stare straight from our bedroom sliding glass doors into her bathroom.

If she's really that hard up then realistically its probably about time she moved out of the area and relocated to somewhere cheaper.

Any ideas?
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 2:14 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

Hi mate, we had a similar issue back in England. We always maintained the fences on all three sides down the back garden as we paid for all of them, even though 'to the left' is classed as neighbours?
Anyhow we had a issue where there trees came to be growing over and through our fence and we had a few heated debates as to who owns what (fence wise).
All the tree branches that touched or came onto our side i cut off and threw back over his side they are his property, so was our fence on his side?
We sold our house and came here, and we to now wonder who as what right to what fence is it like the uk or totally different here.
Sorry i can't answer your initial question but you have raised others mate.
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 2:29 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

Originally Posted by DadAgain
For a number of years now the fence and 1m retaining wall between our neighbours and us has gradually listed towards us. We've discussed it a number of times with the neighbour who is a single mum and clearly reluctant to spend any money.

Recently the lean has become worse (approaching 45 degrees at our back corner) and its clear that the timber retaining wall is rotten through, termite infested and quite simply not retaining.

Simple analysis of the land suggests to me that the retaining wall is shared - if it werent there, our house would be inundated with earth, and her house would subside and collapse.

Adding further to the complications there are troublesome goldencane palms on her side pushing the fence towards our house.

I've tried for the last 2 weeks to get our neighbours attention and discuss it - but she never answers her door, her landline (the only number I have) has been disconnected and she seems to be evasive.

I'm going to get a couple of quotes for the replacement of wall and fence, but its not going to be trivial. My guess is that we're looking at $4k ish for the job - and thats assuming we demolish the trees ourselves.

Today our neighbour disappeared again before I got a chance to talk to her - but her mother did show up (to look after the kids). I did manage to get her attention briefly and suggested that we really need to do something about the situation, but she poo-poo'd the whole idea and said, "Who needs a fence?" and "My daughter can barely afford to put food on the table - theres no point having a fence if you cant eat".

Now - I'm a compassionate guy, and can sympathise - but WTF? I have no idea what to do here. I simply dont have the expertise or time to do the job myself. She's clearly not going to fork up for her 50% of the job costs and I dont really want to be that guy that takes their neighbours to court - but if we do nothing then pretty soon I'm going to be able to stare straight from our bedroom sliding glass doors into her bathroom.

If she's really that hard up then realistically its probably about time she moved out of the area and relocated to somewhere cheaper.

Any ideas?
Sounds like you've only got two choices.... pay for it yourself or sue her and make her move away. Pretty difficult choices both of them.

Maybe suggest that she pay what she can afford... which may be 1/4... then it could be that your conscious is clear for the sake of 1K.

Have a good think and maybe address a well thought out and sympathetic letter to her, saying that you are willing to negotiate anything rather than have to sue her.

JAT... A lot of single women know tradesmen... maybe she could supply the labour for nothing and you supply the materials.
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 2:32 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

the "to the left" rule makes good sense to me in the UK. At leasts its clear who's is who's and who is responsible for the cost of fixes/replacements.

Here the rule is 50/50. Nobody 'owns' a fence outirght and the upkeep and maintainence costs are to be shared. This seems f%$king ridiculous to me and surely must cause a LOT of disputes as party A thinks spending $x is reasonable whereas party B thinks spending $y is more appropriate.

My case is just like this - on one side we have a a 'neat freak' who gets everything looking spotless and insists on fixing up any little scratch on the fence ASAP (which is fine by me) and the other side is the neighbour in question who clearly doesnt care if the fence should collapse crushing my children* and spending any more than $20 on maintainance is deemed 'overkill'.





*[exaggerated for dramatic effect]
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 2:36 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

Is she "reluctant to spend money" or does she simply have no money to spend? If she has no money, she may feel bad about that and be avoiding you for that reason, and it could also be why her mother got defensive.

No point taking her to court if she really doesn't have anything, besides causing more grief for all of you.

I don't know, obviously, just putting up an alternative POV. (My sister is a single-parent on disability and suggesting she had 2k to spare would be laughable. Most weeks she doesn't have 2p.)
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 2:50 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

No point taking her to court if she really doesn't have anything, besides causing more grief for all of you.
Indeed - but living in an 'open plan' neighbourhood isnt my idea of fun. Its bad enough that our houses are just 20ft away from each other - It'd be pretty intollerable with no fencing. - and apart from anything else it means we cant leave. I cant sell or rent this house in this state - that side seriously impacts the properties value.

Like I said before - if she cant afford to maintain her property she should sell up. It sounds callous - but a broke mother with 2 kids 2 days a week could probably survive without the 4 bedroom house in a well-off area. If she sold up and bought a 3 bedroom house the other side of the hill (just 2 kms away) she'd have $150k spare... just sayin'.....
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 2:59 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

I agree with your thoughts as to her selling and surviving somewhere else, it is maddening when some people just say 'no' so easily and know that you will end up paying all the costs because it was you who raised the issue.
I guess some are happy in unsafe and shitty situations, where most sane people would want at a minimum the safest environment for there own kids let alone surrounding families, but this is not a utopian society we live in sadly.

I guess you will have to spend the bucks and make it your own, i bet the lady makes comments after it's all done and dusted, ie - colour or shape of fence etc, bet you.
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 3:05 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

We had an elderly slighlty intelelectually imparied reclusive neighbour in the uk, "her" fence came down but we had to replace it... Twas the right thing to do... HE also took on clearing her back garden and keeping it tidy for her so she could go out in it again after many year of not being able to access it due to overgrowth...

We are currently NOT ar odds with our neighbours ( who are renting) but with their estate agent... Coz we had a guy turn up to repair a fence that had come down during a recent storm... No quote, nothing just on the doorstep, I'm from the estate agent, I want a grand in cash I'm going to replace the fence..

No youre frickin NOT... Says I... That would be tresspass and I'll call the police and have you arrested if you set foot on our property..we'll get a quote and get back to the agent... $400 LESS from our guy... And thats EACH coz its 50/50.... Even if it WAS their palm trees and higher dirt level that contributed significantly to it coming down!

Awaiting EA response....
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 3:57 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

I don't see why you should have to pay a penny of her expenses or do the work yourself - what if you or someone else got injured? It is her responsibility to pay 50% of the cost, or 100% if the problem is caused by her. Or her landlord's responsibility, if she is not the homeowner - you can check on this.

It would be worthwhile checking to find out whose property the retaining wall/fence is on, or whether it's equally across the boundary. Also, if it has the correct building/planning approval from the local council.

As to feeling sympathy for her because she's a single mum, why should her children benefit in favour of yours? Would she do the same for you? You don't know her mother's financial situation, perhaps she or some other family member or partner has the funds.

You have made several attempts to talk to her about it, put it in writing, perhaps have it delivered by Australia Post so that she has to sign for delivery.

Yes, dividing fences are a big issue for local councils and yes, we have had trouble with a neighbour about it.
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 4:05 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

Do you - or your neighbour have insurance - if so could the fence perhaps "blow" over in the next storm??
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 4:19 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

Originally Posted by DadAgain
For a number of years now the fence and 1m retaining wall between our neighbours and us has gradually listed towards us. We've discussed it a number of times with the neighbour who is a single mum and clearly reluctant to spend any money.

Recently the lean has become worse (approaching 45 degrees at our back corner) and its clear that the timber retaining wall is rotten through, termite infested and quite simply not retaining.

Simple analysis of the land suggests to me that the retaining wall is shared - if it werent there, our house would be inundated with earth, and her house would subside and collapse.

Adding further to the complications there are troublesome goldencane palms on her side pushing the fence towards our house.

I've tried for the last 2 weeks to get our neighbours attention and discuss it - but she never answers her door, her landline (the only number I have) has been disconnected and she seems to be evasive.

I'm going to get a couple of quotes for the replacement of wall and fence, but its not going to be trivial. My guess is that we're looking at $4k ish for the job - and thats assuming we demolish the trees ourselves.

Today our neighbour disappeared again before I got a chance to talk to her - but her mother did show up (to look after the kids). I did manage to get her attention briefly and suggested that we really need to do something about the situation, but she poo-poo'd the whole idea and said, "Who needs a fence?" and "My daughter can barely afford to put food on the table - theres no point having a fence if you cant eat".

Now - I'm a compassionate guy, and can sympathise - but WTF? I have no idea what to do here. I simply dont have the expertise or time to do the job myself. She's clearly not going to fork up for her 50% of the job costs and I dont really want to be that guy that takes their neighbours to court - but if we do nothing then pretty soon I'm going to be able to stare straight from our bedroom sliding glass doors into her bathroom.

If she's really that hard up then realistically its probably about time she moved out of the area and relocated to somewhere cheaper.

Any ideas?
Bloody fences, it doesn't matter what the legal situation, they always cause problems. I remember my neighbour in the UK used to infuriate me because on her side of the fence (our fence), she made a flower bed and had the earth about six inches up the fence which of course, started to rot at the bottom because she was always watering it.... Just a thought, isn't there a cheaper option? What about colour bond, or is that even dearer??
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 5:20 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

Originally Posted by gobbyjock
Do you - or your neighbour have insurance - if so could the fence perhaps "blow" over in the next storm??
Even the most gullable of insurance inspectors would probably be bit sus if we suggested this retaining wall had blown over in the latest string wind:



..and lets face it any fence built on top of those foundations is going to struggle a bit!
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 6:51 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

Around here, if your house is lower down the hill to your neighbour and your house was built afterwards the retaining wall is fully your responsibility but the fence is shared.

Before you go off on one, get the real facts from your council. No point in having a go at the woman if it turns out that your council works the same as ours or has some bizarre ruling on something. Council guy should come out free of charge.
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Old Sep 17th 2011, 7:02 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
Around here, if your house is lower down the hill to your neighbour and your house was built afterwards the retaining wall is fully your responsibility but the fence is shared.

Before you go off on one, get the real facts from your council. No point in having a go at the woman if it turns out that your council works the same as ours or has some bizarre ruling on something. Council guy should come out free of charge.
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Old Sep 18th 2011, 3:12 am
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Default Re: Neighbours - Fencing drama

Get 3 quotes and then serve her with A Notice To Fence, she has to respond within 28 days or appear before a magistrates court and give reasons as to why she refuses to contribute to or cannot contribute to a new fence and/or retaining wall. If she pleads poverty and can prove it you may end up paying for the whole fence yourself alternatively she may offer to pay you X amount a week. Depends on how QCAT views it when it goes before them.
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