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The Future of Australia

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Old Jan 18th 2008 | 3:38 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by IvanM
Australia's biggest export destinations are China, the US and Japan. The state of Australia's economy is down to the huge commodities boom that Chindia is generating. Take away the commodities and the housing market will dive as this country has higher levels of consumer debt that the US. Take away housing and commodities and this country will be like anywhere else in the sub prime mess.

The big question is when will China's boom end? China's boom is built on excessive credit and just like the rest of Asia in 1997 and any other credit led boom it will bust. Hopefully by that point the US and Japan will be back online.

The other wonderful thing about commodites exports is that they bring the government billions in tax royalties that mean Australia has been able to slash income tax rates and fund some pork barrelled election campaigns. This is despite the need for critical infrastructure projects so we have fresh water, electricity and schools for the 125,000 a year migration intake.
As I think OzEagle says, short term, the commodities market might provide some sort of insurance for Australia. But if you're mortgaged to the hilt, you're mortgaged to the hilt! I feel sorry for the people who borrowed to the max to get on the ladder out in Sydney's West or Melbourne's SE, for example.

Have to admit I'd much rather pay higher taxes if it meant investment for infrastructure. I don't particularly want an extra 10-50bucks a week. This income tax reduction seems to have been very popular since the late 80s.
 
Old Jan 18th 2008 | 7:07 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
As I think OzEagle says, short term, the commodities market might provide some sort of insurance for Australia. But if you're mortgaged to the hilt, you're mortgaged to the hilt! I feel sorry for the people who borrowed to the max to get on the ladder out in Sydney's West or Melbourne's SE, for example.

Have to admit I'd much rather pay higher taxes if it meant investment for infrastructure. I don't particularly want an extra 10-50bucks a week. This income tax reduction seems to have been very popular since the late 80s.
There have been large tax reductions in the last few years. Government spending has also blown out to levels unheard of since the seventies and huge amounts of debt have been paid off. When the commodities boom ends something will have to give as the tax receipts it is providing is nothing like what the rest of the economy can generate.

Those mortgaged to the hilt in the areas you describe are in trouble. The RBA governor gave a speech the other night stating his priority was fighting inflation and not the credit crisis. That and the inflation figures the other day indicate a rate rise very soon.
 
Old Jan 18th 2008 | 7:15 pm
  #93  
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

i think australia will become the new world leaders in exporting green technology

it will be the first place to start a green revolution as it is acutely affected by climate change
it will be harder and harder to enter australia

the indigenous peoples

will be the ones to lead the way
 
Old Jan 18th 2008 | 7:30 pm
  #94  
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by IvanM
There have been large tax reductions in the last few years. Government spending has also blown out to levels unheard of since the seventies and huge amounts of debt have been paid off. When the commodities boom ends something will have to give as the tax receipts it is providing is nothing like what the rest of the economy can generate.

Those mortgaged to the hilt in the areas you describe are in trouble. The RBA governor gave a speech the other night stating his priority was fighting inflation and not the credit crisis. That and the inflation figures the other day indicate a rate rise very soon.
It's quiet possible that this resource boom may carry on for another 30 years, China is presently rebuilding itself at the same rate if not faster, as the US did in the 1890's... I think you will find there is historical evidence that countries like China and to a lesser extent India start progressing, a 30 year rapid growth cycle is par for the course. China is going to end up bigger than anything we've seen in history to date, and fantasically for us here in Aus... India is right on it's shirt tail... Then there's the rest of Asia... Malaysia..Indonesia.. SE Asia... they are all growing. In the midst of all of this, America surely will recover. The only major obstacle to this growth I can see are Middle east problems.
 
Old Jan 18th 2008 | 7:39 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by why
i think australia will become the new world leaders in exporting green technology

it will be the first place to start a green revolution as it is acutely affected by climate change
it will be harder and harder to enter australia

the indigenous peoples

will be the ones to lead the way
I take a slightly different view... Open up the flood gates, import as many people as possible, Cause the reason to solve the water situation, and use the masses taxes to fix the water issue, and Australias fantastic growth potential for once and for all.... It's the availablity of water and a bigger populatiion holding this country back from becoming a very major player on the World Stage.
 
Old Jan 18th 2008 | 7:42 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
I take a slightly different view... Open up the flood gates, import as many people as possible, Cause the reason to solve the water situation, and use the masses taxes to fix the water issue, and Australias fantastic growth potential for once and for all.... It's the availablity of water and a bigger populatiion holding this country back from becoming a very major player on the World Stage.
right on that sounds good
 
Old Jan 18th 2008 | 8:26 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
It's quiet possible that this resource boom may carry on for another 30 years, China is presently rebuilding itself at the same rate if not faster, as the US did in the 1890's... I think you will find there is historical evidence that countries like China and to a lesser extent India start progressing, a 30 year rapid growth cycle is par for the course. China is going to end up bigger than anything we've seen in history to date, and fantasically for us here in Aus... India is right on it's shirt tail... Then there's the rest of Asia... Malaysia..Indonesia.. SE Asia... they are all growing. In the midst of all of this, America surely will recover. The only major obstacle to this growth I can see are Middle east problems.
The overall economic trend is always up but the economic cycle keeps on repeating itself over and over again. Periods of low economic growth and recession are inevitable in all economies. Countries with stable institutions and independent central banks have smoothed the cycle so the peaks are not too high and the recessions to bad.

I agree China and India will be huge but such growth in economies with opaque institutions and corruption always has an element of unsustainable growth funded by credit. just look back at SE Asia in 1997. The booms are massive but beware the inevitable busts on the way.
 
Old Jan 18th 2008 | 8:38 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
I take a slightly different view... Open up the flood gates, import as many people as possible, Cause the reason to solve the water situation, and use the masses taxes to fix the water issue, and Australias fantastic growth potential for once and for all.... It's the availablity of water and a bigger populatiion holding this country back from becoming a very major player on the World Stage.
Are you talking something like a replay of the snowy hydro scheme without the whites only policy? I am yet to be convinced of the financial viability of moving water vast distances.

Spreading the population out away from the capital cities would help. There appears to be a reluctance of industry and service to move out of the capitals which in turn stops the population moving out. If you look at Europe and the US the population and economy is spread more rather than concentrated in regional capitals. Even small UK villages have software companies and other high value add enterprises.

The other key is ensuring that Australia keeps in with the opening of regional economies in organisation such as ASEAN and APEC. It was also good to see Rudd championing opening Australia as a single market. Sounds strange but there are interstate barriers to business such as recognition of qualifications, payroll taxes, thousands of industrial relations laws and separate education systems.
 
Old Jan 18th 2008 | 8:41 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by why
i think australia will become the new world leaders in exporting green technology

it will be the first place to start a green revolution as it is acutely affected by climate change
it will be harder and harder to enter australia

the indigenous peoples

will be the ones to lead the way
Until Howard (he was a huge climate change sceptic) was booted out alternative energy was on the back shelf of policy. There is a lot of catch up to do if the right incentives are put in place.
 
Old Jan 18th 2008 | 9:13 pm
  #100  
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by IvanM
Are you talking something like a replay of the snowy hydro scheme without the whites only policy? I am yet to be convinced of the financial viability of moving water vast distances.
Yes, except a much bigger scheme. Apparently on paper at least, it's possible to move water from the Highlands of Western Tasmania, via a pipeline under Bass Strait through to the current infrastructure that Victoria has and then on to the other local states. All via Gravity feed... probably goes against all current environmental constraints, considering the size of dam you would have to build in the West Tasmanian highlands.... Needs tend to overcome Environmental issues, especially asthetic issues, in the long term.

Australia does have enough water, its just the question of capturing it and moving it.
 
Old Jan 19th 2008 | 5:02 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

what about lake argyle

that's a big bit of water
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Argyle

http://www.kdc.wa.gov.au/kimberley/tk_ord.asp

Last edited by why; Jan 19th 2008 at 5:04 pm. Reason: forgot a bit
 
Old Jan 19th 2008 | 6:27 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by why
It's just a large puddle.
 
Old Jan 19th 2008 | 7:53 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
Yes, except a much bigger scheme. Apparently on paper at least, it's possible to move water from the Highlands of Western Tasmania, via a pipeline under Bass Strait through to the current infrastructure that Victoria has and then on to the other local states. All via Gravity feed... probably goes against all current environmental constraints, considering the size of dam you would have to build in the West Tasmanian highlands.... Needs tend to overcome Environmental issues, especially asthetic issues, in the long term.

Australia does have enough water, its just the question of capturing it and moving it.
Sounds like a project Stalin would be proud of. I heard of other plans to build canals from the top end to Perth and Brisbane. I'd love to know the real prices for the projects.

All coastal NSW has to do is start recycling. Inland is a different matter.
 
Old Jan 22nd 2008 | 9:09 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
I take a slightly different view... Open up the flood gates, import as many people as possible, Cause the reason to solve the water situation, and use the masses taxes to fix the water issue, and Australias fantastic growth potential for once and for all.... It's the availablity of water and a bigger populatiion holding this country back from becoming a very major player on the World Stage.
USA going slowly down the pan, only they haven't realised it yet.
 
Old Jan 22nd 2008 | 9:19 pm
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Default Re: The Future of Australia

Originally Posted by quercus
USA going slowly down the pan, only they haven't realised it yet.
are we going with it
 


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