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Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by Bermudashorts
(Post 12085000)
I have just answered that very question. We voted on a withdrawal from the EU. Not a partial withdrawal. If it had been a partial withdrawal then my ballot paper would have said so. It was crystal clear. It could not have been any clearer.
Cameron made the mistake of a yes or no vote with no detail. It's coming back to bite the country in the b*m now; the greyness of it. |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 12084827)
Would you prefer the people, the majority, those who voted for Brexit, to have control of how this pans out?
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Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by astera
(Post 12085019)
Here we have a 2-2 result in the UK, so are we going to be the undemocratic ones and say that England is more important than Scotland or tiny N.E. because we're bigger
It wasn't 2-2 it was 15 188 406 to 13 266 966........................ The people voted - that's democracy at work for you. |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by OzTennis
(Post 12085106)
Not black and white - the very clear majority of the people of Scotland were for Remain not Leave. This is why Sturgeon is pressing May for some leeway on what is retained - if not, Referendum 2.
At the moment though she is just the leader of the "Wee Pretendy Parliament" and has no legal or constitutional ability to negotiate with the EU - she's making a lot of noise but is essentially bluffing. However, for narrow party political reasons, she has no option other than to indulge in this charade of Scotland staying in the EU/Single Market when UK leaves...... |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by astera
(Post 12085009)
It was a referendum, not an election. There is no automatic action and it is non-binding, something that the quitters seem to have conveniently forgotten.
At the end of the day the gov't needs to do what is best for the UK. If brexit will have a negative impact then their job is not to let it happen. Plain and simple... https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...-february-2016 This is a straight democratic decision – staying in or leaving – and no government can ignore that. Having a second renegotiation followed by a second referendum is not on the ballot paper. And for a Prime Minister to ignore the express will of the British people to leave the EU would not just be wrong, it would be undemocratic. On the diplomacy, the idea that other European countries would be ready to start a second negotiation is for the birds. Many are under pressure for what they have already agreed. Then there is the legality. I want to spell out this point very carefully. If the British people vote to leave there is only one way to bring that about – and that is to trigger Article 50 of the Treaties and begin the process of exit. And the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away. |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by GarryP
(Post 12084911)
Don't think that's how it would run actually.
Instead, my guess is that if May got away with pressing the button, against the expressed will of the other parts of the UK, then all of the other bits of the UK call pretty much immediate referenda on leaving the UK and calling themselves a federated state (call it Celticland). Assuming they get the yes vote then before the 2 years of the article 50 are up, they have voted to leave. They then agree with the EU to be the successor state. Upshot is, THEY, are then the UK, and don't leave, and England is effectively kicked out. You can see how Celticland wins out of it. You can also see how the EU wins (shafting England, minimising loss of face). And my guess is that Wales would fall into line with Celticland, rather than stay with England. Hell, I'm not sure that the City of London wouldn't agree to leave too. I would be amazed if Celticland ever becomes a reality particularly as the majority in NI are Unionist who are in favour of staying in the UK. Wales voting pretty much mapped that in England so no traction there. Oh back to Scotland where the majority voted for oh wait - UNION. I thinking you are allowing your distaste for the English to jaundice your judgement on this one Garry..... Celticland - not a hope in hell of becoming a reality. |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by GarryP
(Post 12085031)
There will be civil unrest as a result of the impact of hard brexit. There probably wouldn't be if they just put off the whole thing. It would be a very British compromise.
Civil unrest to overthrow the will of the people - think that through Garry - it is a very dangerous thing to advocate and is the antithesis of democracy. |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
The electorate - 46 501 241
Scots voting REMAIN - 1 661 191 That means the argument that Scotland has a democratic veto over the UK's BREXIT is based on the votes of 3.6% of the overall electorate. Just Saying...... |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by Garbatellamike
(Post 12085121)
That's right in my view and if Sturgeon wants a new referendum based on that criterion after BREXIT is complete she has a valid argument as things will have changed significantly.
At the moment though she is just the leader of the "Wee Pretendy Parliament" and has no legal or constitutional ability to negotiate with the EU - she's making a lot of noise but is essentially bluffing. However, for narrow party political reasons, she has no option other than to indulge in this charade of Scotland staying in the EU/Single Market when UK leaves...... For the record I voted No to independence and Remain in the EU but I can see where the SNP are coming from. |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by OzTennis
(Post 12085166)
Yes, Referendum 1 on independence was conducted before the EU referendum. There was a vote to remain in the UK within the EU. This is why the SNP may/probably will press for Referendum 2 on independence without the EU (it is up to May to negotiate Brexit terms which will weaken the case for Ref 2). As others are saying to suit their argument; that's democracy at work. ;)
For the record I voted No to independence and Remain in the EU but I can see where the SNP are coming from. |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 12085170)
What bullshit. The first was to stay with the UK fullstop. But feel free to massage the story to suit your agenda, which is most likely as simple as the cost implications you now face sending pounds home.
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Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by OzTennis
(Post 12085166)
Yes, Referendum 1 on independence was conducted before the EU referendum. There was a vote to remain in the UK within the EU. This is why the SNP may/probably will press for Referendum 2 on independence without the EU (it is up to May to negotiate Brexit terms which will weaken the case for Ref 2). As others are saying to suit their argument; that's democracy at work. ;)
For the record I voted No to independence and Remain in the EU but I can see where the SNP are coming from. Sturgeon's constant posturing and bluffing, whilst irritating, is entirely understandable from a party political stand point. I did not have a vote in the Scottish referendum; however, 'er indoors voted remain. I did not vote in the BREXIT/BREMAIN debate as both sides were clearly lying through their teeth and I could not vote for either Project FEAR or Project XENOPHOBIA as I wanted them both to lose....... |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by OzTennis
(Post 12085105)
Norway? i.e. we leave the EU, do we remain in the single market or not? There was nothing on the ballot paper about that. It is being left to hardline Brexiters to say it was and softline Brexiters to say it's up for negotiation.
Cameron made the mistake of a yes or no vote with no detail. It's coming back to bite the country in the b*m now; the greyness of it. It was always going to be a very complicated thing to unwind. No surprise there whatsoever, no bottoms being bitten here. The future is bright. |
Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 12085170)
What bullshit. The first was to stay with the UK fullstop. But feel free to massage the story to suit your agenda, which is most likely as simple as the cost implications you now face sending pounds home.
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Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
Originally Posted by Garbatellamike
(Post 12085127)
Some huge assertions there Garry and as you say a complete guess as well
I would be amazed if Celticland ever becomes a reality particularly as the majority in NI are Unionist who are in favour of staying in the UK. Wales voting pretty much mapped that in England so no traction there. Oh back to Scotland where the majority voted for oh wait - UNION.
Originally Posted by Garbatellamike
(Post 12085132)
Ah the old threat of violence from the minority to overcome the democratic will of the people it seems some leopards can't change their spots.
You need to consider what will happen if May presses that button. Firstly, the EU will attempt to screw the UK. Particularly with the Celticland opportunity above, they force a hard brexit. As a result the UK economy will go into depression (guaranteed). To attempt to stave off the worst, Hammond is talking about halving corporation tax. So, depressed economy and taxes on business getting cut - guess who's going to take the brunt? Hence civil unrest. |
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