old.sparkles

Because it is not only pensioners using these establishments during the week.

However, all of them are still open. So if they can run successfully with the 'measly pickings' with no penalty rates applied to wages, surely with the uplift on weekends, meaning employees are busier as well as giving up their family time, then penalty rates are applicable.

There are not too many businesses who only open on weekends are there? Which new businesses do you think will now operate on Sundays due to the cut in penalty rates?

Beoz

I thought you wouldn't be able to answer that. It doesn't suit your federal government attack, it doesn't suit your agenda not to bad mouth Labor.

GarryP

Oh, did you utter something?

In any case, I think I kind of comprehensively answered that strawman in the first thing I posted.

Here's the thing - a strategic answer to the issue doesn't involve tinkering - it addresses the underlying issues. You won't even face the underlying issue (treating housing as an investment vehicle) - so you can't get at a strategic answer (which has to be at the federal level).

Beoz

So you are saying housing should never be allowed to be an investment vehicle?

Ok, I get that from a lefty perspective, but its been made a commercial asset. Too late to reverse. The worlds economy works on it.

Next idea?

Beoz

My street is in throwing distance of a Westfields. There's 3 cafes in a 200 metre stretch. All closed on a Sunday because of penalty rates (I have asked them. They would prefer to have their day off on a Tuesday when its at its least busiest but the rates on a Sunday don't make it viable).

OzTennis

They aren't closing on Sunday because of some of the highest corporate tax rates in the world are they?

Nelson Place, Williamstown, Melbourne - probably 20 cafes in a few hundred metres; not one closed on Sunday and it is their busiest day of the week. They seem to be able to cover their costs.

Sunday and public holiday penalty rates will be reduced for hospitality, retail workers, Fair Work Commission rules - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Beoz

Exactly. Sunday is the busiest day of the week. Why "penalise" that with penalty rates?

Left wing madness.

Australia is catching up. You need to take note old timer.

OzTennis

Exaggerated as ever. Is the proposal to pay less or the same on Sunday as other days of the week? No, they are reducing the degree of the penalty for getting people to work on Sunday. No hint of concern for the lowest paid workers to receive less?

old.sparkles

current penalty rates pay workers double on Sundays. Every other cost would be the same I would think. If they think they would be twice as busy on a Sunday to a Tuesday, even paying penalty rates, they would gain so perhaps they don't think they will be twice as busy. If this is the case, even cutting penalty rates, it wouldn't make too much sense

Amazulu

There's a great cafe in Kalamunda run by a lovely woman from Iowa

It's always pretty busy on weekends

I asked her yesterday how the penalty rate cut is going affect here. She said that her costs are going to fall so much on Sundays that she will be able to afford to hire a new staff member - the 4 girls she has working on Sundays are run off their feet at times and another body will enable her to deliver a faster and more efficient service - which should increase sales and profits

Good for her

Beoz

There's one more bod with a job. There's one more bod paying tax. There's a business owner paying more tax on increased profits.

And that my friends is a winner for millions v 3 existing workers.

Beoz

I care for the majority, not the minority. That makes a happy democracy.

GarryP

Unlikely to generally be the case.

More likely is that stores will be open longer, with existing staff working longer hours for the same pay. 175% to 150%

So, for instance, if there were 4 wait staff before, on 175% (= 700%), then there's not enough for one extra new person. However you could open 10-3 rather than 10-2 on the Sunday, or ask an existing employee to come in for a hour over lunchtime to help out.

Empirically such cuts in overtime don't tend to result in new jobs, just longer hours for the same money.

Obviously there aren't magically going to be more customers to serve just because the overtime rate has changed.

Beoz

I thought hospitality staff are generally paid an hourly rate. How does more hours equal the same money?

Edit. Oh I see. Based on before penalty rate cuts and after. Oh well. Bad luck. The age of entitlement is over.

I'm looking forward to the abolishment of penalty rates all together. I'm looking for to seeing the roster of choice being Monday to Friday and the business having to decide the incentive to get staff to work weekends.

Let the fierce competition erupt between businesses to hire and retain staff. Bring it on. The workers wins.

GarryP

As they would have been paid before the change in the rate.

If they were previously working for 6 hours, then they instead have to work for 7 hours. They don't get any less in the pay packet, but lose an hour of their time.