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Old Jan 31st 2010 | 8:19 pm
  #136  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by kporte
It seems we like to compare and analyse on here, but I feel certain that nationality doesn't come into the equation for most artists!

They just want to knock out good music.
I've got a bit of a theory as to why Britain has pumped out so much talent in terms of music. The good music of the last 50 years from Britain has almost exclusively been written and performed by the working classes. I think a lot of inspiration and drive comes from having to scrape through life and hard times (certainly true of the blues which in a way is the origin of rock and pop to a degree). I think this genuine feel that people get from a song is very difficult to replicate if you have not experienced much of the hardships of life. Obviously there are many many exceptions to my theory, like Queen, Pink Floyd, most Jazz artists and of course The Vengaboys.

In Aus, the working classes tend to put all their spare time into sports, not music.
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 8:23 pm
  #137  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by Broad Shoulders
I've got a bit of a theory as to why Britain has pumped out so much talent in terms of music. The good music of the last 50 years from Britain has almost exclusively been written and performed by the working classes. I think a lot of inspiration and drive comes from having to scrape through life and hard times (certainly true of the blues which in a way is the origin of rock and pop to a degree). I think this genuine feel that people get from a song is very difficult to replicate if you have not experienced much of the hardships of life. Obviously there are many many exceptions to my theory, like Queen, Pink Floyd, most Jazz artists and of course The Vengaboys.

In Aus, the working classes tend to put all their spare time into sports, not music.
Good theory I think. Personally, when it comes to music, where it comes from is not a concern for me, only that it affects me
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 8:32 pm
  #138  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by Broad Shoulders
I've got a bit of a theory as to why Britain has pumped out so much talent in terms of music. The good music of the last 50 years from Britain has almost exclusively been written and performed by the working classes. I think a lot of inspiration and drive comes from having to scrape through life and hard times (certainly true of the blues which in a way is the origin of rock and pop to a degree). I think this genuine feel that people get from a song is very difficult to replicate if you have not experienced much of the hardships of life. Obviously there are many many exceptions to my theory, like Queen, Pink Floyd, most Jazz artists and of course The Vengaboys.

In Aus, the working classes tend to put all their spare time into sports, not music.
I'd agree with that but I'd also include jazz musicians especially if you go back to the roots in deep south black America.
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 8:53 pm
  #139  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by Broad Shoulders
I've got a bit of a theory as to why Britain has pumped out so much talent in terms of music. The good music of the last 50 years from Britain has almost exclusively been written and performed by the working classes. I think a lot of inspiration and drive comes from having to scrape through life and hard times (certainly true of the blues which in a way is the origin of rock and pop to a degree). I think this genuine feel that people get from a song is very difficult to replicate if you have not experienced much of the hardships of life. Obviously there are many many exceptions to my theory, like Queen, Pink Floyd, most Jazz artists and of course The Vengaboys.

In Aus, the working classes tend to put all their spare time into sports, not music.
Mmm, a decent theory and fine up to a point but not without its flaws - like any theory, I hasten to add.

Whilst many acts over the years have had their roots in the UK's working classes, the theory you propose falls down because a great, great number of the most popular and talented musicians have come from the middle classes. The list goes beyond members of Queen and Pink Floyd.

Despite singing Working Class Hero, John Lennon's upbringing was distinctly middle class and comfortable. Sources close to Lennon are fairly unanimous on this. The assumption that all four of The Beatles had tough, impoverished upbringings in the mean streets of 50's Liverpool is not really accurate but many casual observers tend to believe that nonetheless. Likewise Mick Jagger was born to a middle-class family. Therein you have two of the key influences on British music in the 60's.

Nick Drake is one of the most respected and influential British musicians ever. Nothing at all working class about him - quite the opposite in fact.

Fastfoward to the 90's and two of the most productive and creative bands are again distinctly middle class. Namely Radiohead and Blur. Undoubtedly two of the best British bands ever and both decidely middle class.

Arguably one the most influential men in British music ever (my opinion of course but I think a case could be made for him being, quietly, THE most influential), Brian Eno, who has produced countless albums considered classics is again definitely not working class!!

One of the most talented and influential British women, Kate Bush, is again very much of middle class origins.

So I would say that the working class thing explains SOME of Britain's unarguably immense contribution to music but falls a long way short of being conclusive.
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 8:55 pm
  #140  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by mono
Mmm, a decent theory and fine up to a point but not without its flaws - like any theory, I hasten to add.

Whilst many acts over the years have had their roots in the UK's working classes, the theory you propose falls down because a great, great number of the most popular and talented musicians have come from the middle classes. The list goes beyond members of Queen and Pink Floyd.

Despite singing Working Class Hero, John Lennon's upbringing was distinctly middle class and comfortable. Sources close to Lennon are fairly unanimous on this. The assumption that all four of The Beatles had tough, impoverished upbringings in the mean streets of 50's Liverpool is not really accurate but many casual observers tend to believe that nonetheless. Likewise Mick Jagger was born to a middle-class family. Therein you have two of the key influences on British music in the 60's.

Nick Drake is one of the most respected and influential British musicians ever. Nothing at all working class about him - quite the opposite in fact.

Fastfoward to the 90's and two of the most productive and creative bands are again distinctly middle class. Namely Radiohead and Blur. Undoubtedly two of the best British bands ever and both decidely middle class.

Arguably one the most influential men in British music ever (my opinion of course but I think a case could be made for him being, quietly, THE most influential), Brian Eno, who has produced countless albums considered classics is again definitely not working class!!

One of the most talented and influential British women, Kate Bush, is again very much of middle class origins.

So I would say that the working class thing explains SOME of Britain's unarguably immense contribution to music but falls a long way short of being conclusive.
Kate Bush is lovely and I have met her a couple of times. A genius...
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 8:57 pm
  #141  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by kporte
Kate Bush is lovely and I have met her a couple of times. A genius...
Lucky you!!!

I think the working class theory doesn't really explain Britain's huge contribution next to Australia's miniscule one.

Iceland has produced more cutting edge artists than Australia.
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 9:01 pm
  #142  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by Bernieboy
The only good hit's Lennon ever had were the ones that put him on his ass,dead !!!
ohhhhhhhhhhh lets try and be controversial my little sister does that.
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 9:05 pm
  #143  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by mono
That's an Aussie habit though - they're shocked to discover that so many of their ''celebs'' have never been heard of by anyone outside Australia. They make the assumption that someone like Jimmy Barnes is world famous when in fact no one in the UK (or indeed anywhere else) has ever heard of him.

Most Australian media stuff (films, TV, music) is essentially an irrelevance as far as the rest of the world is concerned.

Note that I said ''most'' not ''all''.
Spot on
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 9:09 pm
  #144  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by Neil52
Spot on
Thanks mate! I usually get all the Aussie apologists getting all upset with me for criticising their beloved adopted homeland so it's nice when someone expresses agreement!

My bro-in-law rattled off a whole load of Aussie bands when I met him for the first time and was visibly startled that none of them hold any weight (or in some cases have even been heard of) in the UK. He was talking Cold Chisel, Powderfinger, Silverchair etc etc etc.
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 9:13 pm
  #145  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by mono
Thanks mate! I usually get all the Aussie apologists getting all upset with me for criticising their beloved adopted homeland so it's nice when someone expresses agreement!

My bro-in-law rattled off a whole load of Aussie bands when I met him for the first time and was visibly startled that none of them hold any weight (or in some cases have even been heard of) in the UK. He was talking Cold Chisel, Powderfinger, Silverchair etc etc etc.
These bands are "ok" but not in the same league.
There are many Aussie bands I like but most are quite niche and can't be compared
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 9:16 pm
  #146  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by kporte
These bands are "ok" but not in the same league.
There are many Aussie bands I like but most are quite niche and can't be compared
The only Aussie band I find really persuasive artistically is Augie March. One Crowded Hour is a FANTASTIC song and one of my all-time favourites.....there you go, folks, I don't hate all things Australian........but the amount of good Aussie bands is DISPROPORTIONATELY low.
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 9:18 pm
  #147  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by mono
The only Aussie band I find really persuasive artistically is Augie March. One Crowded Hour is a FANTASTIC song and one of my all-time favourites.....there you go, folks, I don't hate all things Australian........but the amount of good Aussie bands is DISPROPORTIONATELY low.
Angus and Julia Stone are my favourites. I have tickets for the Sydney Gig in March but am not allowed to fly...
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 9:19 pm
  #148  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by kporte
Angus and Julia Stone are my favourites. I have tickets for the Sydney Gig in March but am not allowed to fly...
Sorry matey.
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 9:25 pm
  #149  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by mono
Sorry matey.
I am used to getting shafted at the moment. I am feeling sorry for myself!

Essentially we agree. Some good Aussie music but it pales next to other nations.
I had hoped for more quality music here but on the plus side the stuff I have found is very good indeed. Just less of it.
 
Old Jan 31st 2010 | 9:48 pm
  #150  
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Default Re: The Beatles

Originally Posted by kporte
I am used to getting shafted at the moment. I am feeling sorry for myself!

Essentially we agree. Some good Aussie music but it pales next to other nations.
I had hoped for more quality music here but on the plus side the stuff I have found is very good indeed. Just less of it.
I do wonder why there is so little that comes out of Australia. Yes, they have only a third of the population of the UK but the UK produces way more than three times as many fantastic musicians.

The downtrodden working class theory doesn't cover it.
 


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