Beoz

The left don't really know what they are doing to be fair and so many areas. A lot of hot air and hypocritical criticism with little planning.

GarryP

Can I just point out, it's bugger all to do with left<>right in political terms. Rather it's poorly thought out attempts to help, be fair, etc. by people who aren't evidence based enough to realise when they are stuffing it up. Same as 'the war on drugs', 'the market will solve everything', and saying "you are either on team Australia or you're a terrorist".

Doing anything because of ideology and simplistic viewpoints is the issue.

Need more brains.

OzTennis

Getting back to Adam Goodes?

I saw a replay of a recent All Blacks match yesterday and I wondered about the Haka. It's acceptable; Adam Goodes 'war dance' was deemed unacceptable by the 'booers'. Discuss.

Beoz

It looked like and aggressive statement towards the crowd. Not really done in the spirit of the haka.

OzTennis

The way I see the Haka done it is to intimidate and frighten the opposition (particularly by the non-Maori members of the team) but each to their own. It was a dance performed by the Maoris before going into battle (now before playing a game of union) so what do you mean by the spirit of the Haka?

I presume you mean 'an' aggressive statement in Goodes case - it was done during the special indigenous round 14. (we'll have no reminders about how the aboriginals didn't just lie down but fought back thank you). All the teams had special jumpers with indigenous artwork on them and Goodes and Jetta prepared an indigenous celebratory goal dance.

I read some of your earlier posts and you sound like you have a David Irving type version of history so it's no point arguing about your light brushing away of what happened in the past.

What is your view of spending on the sick/ill of $18.375 per $1 on healthy people? Or spending of $11.29 on the elderly per $1 on the young? Incidentally, I made up the figures and I'm taking the piss in response to how much is spent on aboriginals but the point remains the same that it is normal practice to positively discriminate in favour of certain age groups, gender or race. Do you just question the spending on one group?

“The lives of Indigenous Australians today are affected by what has happened to us and our ancestors over the past 230 years since Europeans arrived. This can be hard for non-Indigenous people to understand, particularly if you haven’t learned much about Australian history at school. When people have some knowledge of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture and the history of our contact with non-Indigenous Australians since 1788, they have a much better feel for our achievements and our persistent problems. They are more likely to share our pride and to want to improve relationships between us as fellow Australians.”
Professor Mick Dodson AM, Australian of the Year 2009"

Out of interest, did you study Australian history at school? (I notice in another thread you arrived on the shores 3 or 4 years ago so I doubt it).

Beoz

Another very long post. Time is money. I cannot do it all whilst travelling from client to client at this time of night.

Interestingly the Haka has been adopted as a cultural thing by all kiwi's. Is it unique? Yes. Do opposition supporters find it entertaining? Absolutely. Right or wrong a war dance has not been adopted by Australians. Would it unite all? ...... No....... would it be like the fanatics copying the Barmy Army. Probably so. If it was promoted and adopted would it cause racial and political issues ...... yes.

Sport is sport. If you have a historical and political grievance, leave it at the door.

OzTennis

You still didn't explain the difference between the Haka and Goodes dance but went off at a tangent instead of explaining why one is interesting and accepted and a 'cultural thing' while the other is not commented on (but a previous post said it's aggressive).

No comment on whether you are light on regarding Australian history - silence is taken to mean you studied other history, elsewhere.

Beoz

Yes I did. Post 94. This is what I love about you lefties. Give a simple answer and if you don't agree, probe and prod so you can send someone down a dark alley for a mugging. Serve up shit and divide.

Why do we need indigenous rounds or games at all? That serves to divide the community again. But you lefties love the division thing as it serves to tickle your inherit racist fantasies. If we are going to have indigenous rounds, then we need Italian rounds, Greek rounds, and white settler rounds. Fair is fair right? It would be discriminatory not to have it any other way.

This isn't going to make you happy as I know you want to tell me I know nothing about aboriginal history, but yes, I did some of my schooling in Oz as well as the UK. I have mentioned this before, so you can scratch that angle off your attack list.

OzTennis

Now, now, sport is sport - leave politics and history out of it (your words, after raising the spend on the indigenous community vs rest and giving your Irving version of history - classic, that's why I commented; hitherto I was sticking to Adam Goodes and whether the booing was racist or not!!)

I think it is fair to say now that there is an element of racism in the booing. There is an element of some not liking him, there is an element of trying to wind him up but now there is a bandwagon of let's get together in a crowd and have fun booing Goodes. However, perhaps they should go to Edgbaston, the 'most fun ground in the world'.

Where were you educated? (still no comment re knowledge of Australian history).

It seems as though your narrow mind can't see the answer as to why we have indigenous rounds, multicultural celebrations etc so I'll give you the official view why:

"From a deep connection with the land comes a proud history of runners, jumpers, hunters, collectors, dancers, artists and leaders. These skills echo the incredible contribution that Indigenous footballers have made to the game.

The 2015 Toyota AFL Indigenous Round is an opportunity to celebrate the role these athletes have had in shaping Australian Rules football. Not just making the game spectacular, but bringing two cultures together."

Now I guess you will say it is racist and divisive rather than a celebration of the role of the indigenous players in the game.

Beoz

Left winged, blinkered bogans from Melbourne or nearby left wing places are just the pits. Are you that horrible Virginia Trioli in disguise? You just don't get it do you?

OzTennis

Whether you like it or not you come across as uneducated. You rant, you can't express yourself without spelling and grammatical mistakes and mixed metaphors.

Why do you rant about left wing all the time? (I'm far from)

Why do you keep referring to the fact that I come from Melbourne as though that has some relevance? Furthermore you think Melburnians are left winged, blinkered bogans which is just plain idiotic.

You call someone with 2 degrees, a lifetime in education and a rich life experience a bogan.

The only thing I have in common with Trioli is that she was born in Bendigo and we lived there for 5 years.

Beoz

I think that post pretty much sums it up.

I hardly think promoting a bag of degrees really relates to the ideal we are trying to suggest may be happening with this topic. You are defending your concept with a 'I am smarter than you' defence. I'm sure Trioli has a full swag of degrees too. Means little in the real world.

If you don't want to attempt to understand what I'm writing, read Garry's posts. Similar theme.

OzTennis

It's not that I don't want to attempt to understand what you are writing, you post meaningless statements like this and then ask to be taken seriously.

"Left winged, blinkered bogans from Melbourne or nearby left wing places are just the pits. Are you that horrible Virginia Trioli in disguise? You just don't get it do you?"

I'm promoting my education merely because you seem to think I'm a bogan for some reason.

ozzieeagle

Those kind of actions by soccer players in the UK have caused real issues in the past. To the extent that any player making gestures to the opposition crowd can be sent off. Aussie rules crowds are so bland that they dont have opposition sections really though.... So I'm surprised it's caused this kind of passion.

Problem I have with Goodes is I can idenitify with the Negative side aka the booers than I can the positive, I dont see this 'tude aimed at any other original Australian players.

How can anyone expect to publicly profer the belief that Australia Day should be known as Invasion Day and not expect negativity from a sizeable proportion of people ? Even if I personally have some empathy at a low level for his belief. Bloke should have kept his head down and sucked it up.

Needs to spend about 2 hours with Kevin Muscat who probably got booed in every game he played or Managed and learn how Kev uses that kind of thing to inspire him....... Including his own teams supporters at certain clubs !

Bloke needs to walk the walk if he is going to shoot his mouth off.

Beoz

Hardly an excuse. Sounds like your bag of degrees can't understand other peoples posts either. Refund?

Plenty of bogans have degrees. Some of the blinkered MBA riddled project managers I work with are evidence of that. Too one dimensional.

The point is, if we keep serving and dividing, we take all the good work that has happened over the past 50 years and divide in a different direction. What to do moving forward is the key. Inventing a sporting war dance to be like New Zealand and to keep a minority happy will just serve and divide.