ozzieeagle

Ahaa time to bust this old myth again.... What would you say is the City with the greatest make up of foreign born residents in the UK... for arguments sake lets say Bradford... did you know 75 pct of people in Bradford were born in the UK and call themselves White British.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradfor...strict_Council

Now compare that with where I live very happily in an area, where almost half the people were born overseas.

http://www.moreland.vic.gov.au/about...brunswick.html

Now people that know me on here, know that I love living amongst foreign residents, it makes me feel part of the larger world. I've got to admit I dont like the fact that we cannot have Pork served at council functions, and i'm slightly Irked that we cannot have xmas decorations... but still I'd rather have the foreign input for the different cultural aspects that it gives me to choose from.

BTW... Imagine how much of a minority an Aussie born would be in Fawkner

http://www.moreland.vic.gov.au/about...s/fawkner.html

MartinLuther

I agree that people should be sensitive if they know it is a derogatory word. I personally don't use it and it does still come as a shock when I hear it used in passing. However I stand by my original statement that it is arrogant for migrants to condemn the locals if the locals are unaware that the word is derogatory in another country. If the Brits can have a TV programme called Spooks then Aussie radio can announce the arrival of the Paki Cricket Team.

Interestingly paki seems to be a derogatory word in Canada as well as the UK according to Wiktionary. I wonder why?

rabsody

That's not being politically incorrect though. A person would have to be stark raving to be offended by the word 'blackboard' surely? I mean, it can get too silly can't it? Or should we cut 'whiteboard' as well?

NKSK version 2

Quite possibly - but I suppose the key in that particular case is how many black Americans migrate to live in the UK or perhaps more importantly, how widespread the knowledge and use of "spooks" as a derogatory term is in the US.

Your average British resident would know that 'paki' is derogatory. Would your average American know the same for 'spooks'? The fact that in the US it is a term for a spy also suggests that it isn't widespread.

If it was offensive and this was widepread I can't imagine the CIA spies being known as spooks.
The equivalent in the UK would be the colloquialism for a member of MI5 being called a "Nigger".

NKSK version 2

Nottinghamshire County Council early 90s.

NKSK version 2

I think ignorance can be excused. And I also think that if Pakistani-Australians aren't offended by the term then there's no problem.

But as I said before, in an age of increasing mobility and globalisation, we don't know that all Pakistani-Australians aren't offended and I think that anything which offends a people - genuinely offends not just that it doesn't fit into their culture - then it should be avoided.
I'd hate to think that I would offend someone because of my insensitivity about race.

rabsody

I do recall hearing something about the use of the word. Absolutely ludicrous.

MartinLuther

I would say it's quite high. It was given as one of the reasons why they changed the name of the show when it was broadcast in the US.

NKSK version 2

I don't think 'spooks' is a good choice to compare with 'paki' or some other offensive racial slurs.

Just have a look on Wikipedia for 'Nigger' or 'Paki' - unambiguously racist - and as you say in the case of Paki not just in the UK.

Type in spook(s) and there are at least 6 other non-offensive uses together with the racist slur.

BristolBeary

How about the nursery rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep - last year in the UK some schools were changing the words to Baa Baa Rainbow sheep - now how crazy is that!

How can anyone be possibly offended by the word black in a 250 year old nursery rhyme?

Dorothy

The point in bold is just silly. There are countless threads on here about areas of Perth being "Little Britain". There are areas here in Perth that are almost exclusively Asian. Others that are predominently Middle Eastern, still others that are mostly true blue Aussies. I think the same can be said of the rest of Australia, too. As you say, you won't know until you get here.

I'm originally from just outside Toronto...Home of the largest Chinatown anywhere outside of China. To get to Toronto we had to pass through Mississauga and Brampton which together are home to about 2 million people. Probably 15% are of southeast Asian origin. Immigrants the world over tend to create their own community. There is comfort in the familiarity of people who share your ethnic background.

Mikeyc

Was the same in Australia a few years ago, just like over here you cant call it a "Black board" it's now a "Chalk board"

Exile

This is a very silly analogy. In the case of the TV show, Spooks is the term for spies that just happens to have another meaning that is not so well known in the UK. The show is not about black people, and if it was that would be a different matter.

Not the case with "Paki Cricket Team". A term with historical racist connotations is being used to refer directly to those who are most likely to be offended.

In the modern, globalized world, surely a bit more tact wouldn't go amiss. And I don't buy the excuse that "it's different in Australia", especially given the historical and cultural links to the UK (that so many on here wish to deny). Let's not pretend that modern Australian society has developed in complete isolation from the rest of the "western" world.

That is not about cultural imperialism. It's common sense in a modern, increasingly globalized world. As migrants we are part of that world.

I suspect that MartinLuther is just taking a stance here (moral relativism?) as a means of attacking perceived English cultural imperialism.

bcworld

A long time ago......there was a thread started by a Pakistani poster looking for advice who used the term 'Paki' in the thread title. Needless to say some people were outraged and the thread title was changed.....however the poster had no idea that the term could have negative connatations.

Much as I never agree with anything he says, Ned Kelly did have a point here:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...2&postcount=24

I'm not sure how you can go on about globalisation and lack of cultural isolation in one sentence and yet say that by and large the derogatory meaning of 'Spooks' is not widely known in the UK??

janicebks

This is a very interesting thread. I just managed to read through all 16 pages today. Here's my experience: When I was 21, I traveled to Australia for the first time. Now, I'm a petite Asian girl and the guy at customs just took one look at my clean, unstamped passport and said, "We have a problem." I got pulled aside, my passport briefly withheld and questioned by a nice lady with a walkie talkie. We had a short chat and as soon as she realized I wasn't some potential illegal immigrant (or whatever they assumed I was), they let me go. I then assumed it was racism, but now choose to believe I just happened to fit an unfortunate demographic profile.

Perhaps Aussies are more apt to speak their minds too, and this is misinterpreted as racism. The need to be PC (at least in a social context) there might be lower than say, Britain. With about 2/7 Australians having been born overseas, I think it's a little difficult to maintain a genuinely racist attitude there. For example, I come from Malaysia and my OH's friend asked, "Is that the one with hookers or terrorists?" But I don't think she meant it in a nasty way, she was just speaking her mind; though I doubt most Malaysians would share my sense of humor.

In my conversations with Aussies though, I detected a faint unease concerning Muslim people. In fact, when I mentioned Malaysia had a 60% Muslim population, my OH's mum (who is a lady in every sense of the word) freaked out and immediately asked if I was one. Her relief was palpable when I shook my head. This was during the time there were racial riots in Sydney though.

I guess NiknAid said it best: