Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

I wasn't talking about the word, just the attitude because he was Vietnamese.

I've been to Vietnam three times and love the food and get on well with the people. Everytime I mention to an Aussie here that I'm going to an area which is predominantly Vietnamese noses start pointing north.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Phew!

What an awful lot of opinions out there! Is this thread going for the record? Just incase it is, I thought I would add my own take on all this...

Personally, I am utterly sick of hearing about Van Nguyen and the ridiculous plea-bargaining that's gone on on his behalf. Frankly, I think the extent to which Australia has tried to meddle in the constitutional laws of another country is rather embarrassing.

How can we compare what happened in Singapore on Friday with Mugabe or atrocities the world over (as some in this thread have done)? Singapore is a safe, decent, law-abiding country which has every right to dictate and impose its own laws & punishments. It also highly publises the fact that it will impose the death penalty for serious, drug-related crimes.

It's interesting that Australia was first in-line to applaud Singapore when they brought in the death penalty some 20 odd years ago. The drug trafficking from Cambodia and the like was rife and Australia was suffering particularly from the smuggling trade. Singapore's attempt to curb this trade was to introduce the death penalty for those tried and convicted of drug trafficking. Australia, while not willing to go so far themselves, were more than pleased with this hardline approach that would (and does) protect Australia and its population, as well as Singapore and Singaporeans.

The facts of the matter are that Van Nguyen was guilty, by his own admission, of a crime punishable by death under the laws of the country he found himself in. I suppose if you don't believe in the death penalty then you choose to live and travel in a country that does not uphold it, but this does not give us the right to interfere in another country's justice system. Bear in mind that the arrest and conviction etc were fair and just and the punishment was handed out according to that country's constitution. Why would Singapore make a special exception for this man because Australia asked them to?

If you feel the need to spend your time campaigning for the abolition of the death penalty (oh to have such time to spare) then why does this debate only flare up when it is an Aussie/Westerner that is executed? Do you feel we only abolish the death penalty for a few people who catch the attention of the world media and the rest can hang as long as we don't hear too much about it?

My biggest problem with this whole case has been the way Nguyen has been made a hero. His lawyer has been telling everyone who will listen what an inspiration his client is, how he is an example to society and a role model for his generation. The church bells in Melbourne tolled 25 times in honour of his life on Friday. I seem to have missed something here as I was under the impression that Van Nguyen was a convicted criminal. He is certainly not a role model for anyone as far as I can see, though his death may well serve as a deterrent to others (I don't think his incarceration would have had the same effect.)

It's also worth remembering that Nguyen was guilty without question and not as vulnerable and gullible as those caling for an end to the death penalty would have you believe. He and his brother were unemployed, up to their eyes in debt and highly involved in the Melbourne drug scene - again not a role model I would want for my children.

I admit that I feel incredibly sorry for his mother in that no one should have to watch their child die, under any circumstances, but I cannot say I will be mourning the life of Nguyen or campaiging for the rest of the world to do as we say and do in upholding the law - that's just pure arrogance.

I personally, will sleep more soundly knowing that Singapore's harsh approach in its dispensation of justice protects me and my children and that Australia no longer has to fund and support the likes like Van Nguyen.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Have you actually got anything new to say on this?

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Sorry, I thought this was a forum for expressing your opinions, obviuosly I've got that wrong too. :confused:

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Yes it is and yes you can! :)

However, I think you are missing the point. Nobody is suggesting that the bloke was innocent or anything other than a drug smuggler. The point is more that does the death penalty have a place in modern society?

That is the challenge being made by so many anti capital punishment protesters around the world. Whatever Van Nguyen's crime its not really relevant to the more fundamental question of whether you consider the death penalty to be morally correct. From your comments it seems that you do - fair play. If state sanctioned death makes you sleep better at night then so be it. Personally, I find the concept horrific as a whole and demonstrably proven over the course of history to have killed innocent people.

It is a fundamental human right. The right to life. It underpins basic human concepts of right and wrong. Nobody should have the right to decide whether someone should live or die against the wish of that person.

The fact that the Australian public are split on the specific issue of Van Nguyen I think shows the different opinions we all have, including here.

Ultimately it remains for a matter of personal conscience if you support the death penalty or do not. Whichever you choice is the right one for you.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Am I reading this wrong, wasn't that your first post on this thread ? :confused:

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Your response was spot on! Well done.
Discount opionions from those that think drug dealers should get a slap on the wrist or be incarcerated when the costs of doing so can be used on far more deserving places.

Andrew

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Yep, that's what we all think. Slap them on the wrist. Even worse, let's give drug dealers 100 lines:

"I must not import drugs and I'm a very naughty boy".

What about having to clean the black board?

Paul.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Paul
You must agree though, that 9 months for trafficking heroin is "like" a slap on the wrist ?

Maybe, just Maybe, if Van Nguyen's brother had received a much higher sentence for his trafficking offence, then Nguyen himself "may" have thought twice about doing what he did, and may still be alive today ?

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Agreed, but what's bugged me about this thread is that anyone who opposes the death penalty is regarded as a soft leftist do gooder. Thinking that every indidual has the right to life doesn't mean you automatically think soft on crime. That said, crime is a product of social standards and punishment is simply closing the gate after the horse has bolted. Alot of people on here think Singapore has a low crime rate because of the tough penalties (The Singaporese even think this). In that case, can they explain Denmarks lower drug offence rate. I do think we should be hard on criminals(that's the retribution part coming out), but I'm also not stupid enough to think punishment affects crime rates - see USA.

Paul.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

With Denmark, it may be how they classify there drugs ? I've not looked into it, other than a quick google to find:

Heroin in Denmark: The most frequent sanction in cases of possession for personal use is a caution and confiscation of the drug.
However, the drug can only be confiscated if the person in question has actually been charged. Therefore, in many cases, the police charge the person in question and confiscate the heroin, but the prosecution service does not press charges.
A fine can be imposed in cases where a person is repeatedly found in possession of heroin for personal use. Drug abusers who are only in possession of a single dose for their own use will, however, in some cases be allowed to retain it. In these cases, the police motive may be that the effect of confiscation would be minimal as the person in question would probably have to commit a crime to obtain money for another dose. It also seems to be general police practice for drug abusers who are preparing a fix to be allowed to complete it without the drug being confiscated.
http://eldd.emcdda.eu.int/index.cfm?...LanguageISO=EN

It seems it is common, just not prosecuted much. ?

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

One reason I cant be bothered much here anymore

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Luke, you're not about to do a dramatic "Luke will post no more" exit are you?

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

nah, just cant be arsed with making light entertainment for those who cant make room for a little respect when I have a serious view.
A few lines of coke an' I'll be fine ;)

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Very enlightened post Paul - Opposed to the death penalty I may be - however I certainly think that drug smugglers and others who involve themselves in any industry of human misery should receive appropriate punishment.

Prisons in Singapore are known for their poor conditions, lack of rehabilitation, and human rights abuses. Caning is still considered a fair punishment in Singapore and the use of other torture techniques have been reported as being in use. Inmates spend 22 hours a day in their cells wearing leg shackles and with very poor diet and medical attention.

Not exactly somewhere I would want to spend the rest of my life without possibility of parole for example. Being compassionate does not mean being soft or left wing do-good.