Van Nguyen Execution
 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...1/s1516178.htm

I was reading the link and it appears that Singapore is keen to kill Van Nguyen. Having watched Ray Martin last night (which I know is seriously economic with the truth) I was amazed at the number of Australians that didn't care about this poor man's life.

I accept he's an idiot for doing what he did and his mitigating circumstances are pretty poor. And I accept drug running is bad and he should go to jail for a long time. However I do not accept the argument that he knew the law and took the risk. When a country has antiquated laws that bear no proportionality to the crime, then we should stand against it. Execution for this crime is ridiculous and obviously serves no purpose in terms of deterrence. It is purely vengence perpetrated by an inhumane Government that has no value for human life and maintains antiquated values long disposed of by humanitariam nations.

What are your thoughts on this?

Paul.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Got no sympathy for the guy he knew what the outcome was if he got caught. Now he has to face the consequences which is death and its one way to get rid of the over population of jails. I heard there was rumblings of the death penalty back in England after the death of the WPC the other week.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Should have made this into a Poll!
Perosnally, I agree with most of what you say but disagree that he was not aware of the punishment of he committed the crime. If asked to smuggle drugs from A to B, the first thing anyone would do would be to check out the implications if caught. I would think.
I agree that death is harsh.
However, I have seen what drug addiction can do to people. It can turn people into crazed criminals that will break into your house and attack your family so that they can find money for their next fix. Of course it's a minority, but explain that to a victim!
Personally, I believe that anyone and everyone associated with HARD drugs should reap the consequences of the misery that they create.
I think countries like Australia should have harsher sentences making the importation harder, less on the street, less problems.
Van Nguyen was planning to bring his drugs here - I don't want them here. I think the best compromise (if death is not an option) is to throw him in jail and never let him out - but why should we, the taxpayers, pay for that! The money can best be used to treat drug addicts and victim support.

No sympathy from me on this issue

Andrew

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Those who support the death penalty, should also be willing to throw the switch or pull the lever.


Could be a different story with that outcome.


Only one case in recent history, where I would have been willing to and that was that scum Ivan Milat.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

I agree he should be strongly punished, but dont agree with the death penalty in this situation, after all how would you feel if it was your son, brother , he is somebodys son, and i feel for his family.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Completely agree with your sentiments. Execution is this day and age is unacceptable given the alternatives available. Whilst this mans guilt is beyond doubt history has time and time again proved that innocent people have been executed. British history is full of such examples. Asian society is less open about such incidents. Bottom line is that there will be wrongful prosecutions and state sanctioned executions of innocents are enevitable if allowed to carry on.

In countries that corruption is rife there exists a higher risk of such miscarriages of justice. Could any of us here realistically condemn our sons or daughters to such a fate without fighting for what is a basic human fundamental right - the right to life.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

I don't think my original post was too clear. I am not saying he wasn't aware. I'm saying that simply because the law is in place, it doesn't necessarily make it right to have that law.

When you both say you have no sympathy, are you genuinely saying you do not care that a real human being will die, for no real purpose. It has no detterence effect. Others do it all the time (Bali 9). Is it not better that he spends 30 years in jail in the hope he realises what a twat he is and at some time in the future he seeks to make amends. I really see no point in his death other than vengence by the inhumane ignorant.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Granted he was stupid, but I thought that the plane he was on made an unexpected stop in Singapore and he was arrested in a transit lounge. I thought that a transit lounge is considered international territory (I might be wrong on that one.

WIth regards to the UK, yeah the idiot right wingers at Sky news were up in arms on that one. They are the same idiots who think that the UK should leave the EU (which it will have to being back the death penalty), and the council of Europe.

Capital punishment is an outdated and barbaric punishment under ALL circumstances.

As sad as it sounds, I don't think he will get off. I don't think the Australian government (or any government) can make the steadfast Singaporean government change their think on this matter.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

It's a shame Van Nguyen had no such scruples. He was clearly quite happy to contribute to the destruction of the lives of thousands of Australians (our sons and daughters).

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

The death penalty arises all the time in the UK when a Policeman or woman is murdered, as it does when events such as the Soham murders or the Terrorist bombings occur. As much as these events disgust me, I believe in humanity and will not take life out of anger or hatred.

Fortunately the UK politicians have the wisdom in this area to repeatedly refuse to allow the death penalty.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

He's an idiot, and clearly knew the risks but does not strike me as a drug lord. A long jail term would have been sufficient. Execution is unacceptable for this crime. That said, he did know what the punishment was so why the hell he attempted it is beyond me.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Generally, no I dont support a death penalty primarily because until there is NO corruption, NO chance of an innocent person being put to death then you never REALLY know if the wrong person has been killed.

I dont really know enough about this specific case to really have an opinion. However I am totally against the smuggling of drugs and believe that far too many County's laws are too lenient.

Hels

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Oh, and I suppose you really care about the average smack head drop out on the street do you?

Try and understand people before you damn them.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Guess that's me!
I agree with NickyC that summed it up in one good sentence.
I would flick the switch.
With regards to the Soham scum (etc!), I would peel off their skin with razor blades and soak them in salt and vinegar for as long as I could.
Then and again, I am inuhumane and ignorant when it comes to anyone inflicting cruelty onto other humans - esp. kids.
Reap what you sow.
What goes around comes around.
I do believe more countries should adopt the death penalty.
Think of the families of the innocent victims before the families of the criminal.

The ONLY concession I would make is that there would have to be 100% unquestionnable proof that the crime was committed.

Andrew

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

I think it has its place I have always been of the opinion that if you take someones life (in cold blood) you should forfeit the right to your own also that life in prison should mean exactly that.

[QUOTE=dshole]Capital punishment is an outdated and barbaric punishment under ALL circumstances.QUOTE]

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Yep, agreed, our (blimey I say ours now, when I mean Australia - I guess I'm finally to start to feel at home) laws as well as those in the UK are quite leniet. This should of smuggling should result in a longer sentence, but like you I really don't see how the death penalty can operate, especially in corrupt countries.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

The problem with killing someone is that it is completely irreversible, there is absolutely no concept of mercy or grace in this case. People can change, perhaps Nguyen could be a good citizen after another punishment and rehabilitation. Also setting up someone like this as a deterent doesn't work, the people behind the whole thing have not been caught.
What difference will one mans death and the confiscation of that relatively small amount of heroin have on the drug taking population?
Yes, the guy was stupid, perhaps desperate, but should he really be set up as a scapegoat?

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Yes, you're completely wrong about that. It's still the territory of Singapore, the only question is which Singapore authority had jurisdiction.

Can't wait for the scum to be dangling, personally.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Doesn't this also presuppose that we're all right to judge Van Nguyen by his choice of drug. Most of us have been sh*t faced on booze. Many of us have got in fights and acted like a dickhead after a few beers but we all justify the effect of alcohol to maintain it's legality. There's plenty of beered up alcoholics sat in my local at 8.30 am on a Monday and the way Schoolies is going down at the moment, maybe we should ban booze, so what makes Singapore and others so right to say we should kill him for the effects of a different drug.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Its not the mules that are the true scum....they are generally people that are quite often venerable enough to be put in the position where they have minimal options and its the dealers higher up the 'drug chain' that prey on them and put them in the life threatening positions....

Now if we were talking about the Drug lords and manufacturers of the drugs that hit our streets....then hang the bastards and I would flick that switch..

As long as you could fully prove it of course... :D

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Capital punishment is just an official form of revenge.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Indeed.

An interesting statistic that came out of the States a few years ago was that it cost more money to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives.

That said, I still find it hard to comprehend people when they base execution arguments on economics.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Thought I'd add this from a Yahoo article:

Singapore has "possibly the highest execution rate in the world relative to its population," Amnesty said, adding that those hanged included a "significant percentage" of foreigners.

Singapore's Home Affairs Ministry said in response to AFP queries earlier this year that eight Singaporeans and foreigners had been hanged in 2004 and 19 in 2003.

Amnesty, the London-based human rights watchdog, cited a UN report showing that from 1994 to 1999, Singapore had a rate of 13.57 executions per one million people -- the highest globally.

Saudi Arabia was in second place with a rate of 4.65 per million, followed by Belarus at 3.20, Sierra Leone at 2.84, Kyrgyzstan at 2.8, Jordan at 2.12 and China at 2.01.

The largest overall number of executions for the same period took place in China, followed by Iran, Saudi Arabia, the United States, Nigeria and Singapore, Amnesty said.

Of the 174 Singapore executions reported in the press between 1993 and 2003, 93 were foreigners, Amnesty said.

Many are believed to be migrant workers, including nationals from Malaysia, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Ghana, the Netherlands, Britain and Portugal.

In 1995, Filipina domestic worker Flor Contemplacion was hanged for the murder of a fellow Filipina domestic worker and a Singaporean boy, sparking a storm of public outrage in the Philippines that nearly wrecked diplomatic ties.

With another Filipina maid, Guen Aguilar, facing a possible death sentence here for the killing in September of fellow domestic worker Jane La Puebla, diplomats from both sides have taken steps to prevent a political fallout.

Another execution in 1995, involving Macau-born Angel Mou Puipeng, "also caused diplomatic alarm," Amnesty said.

The 25-year-old Hong Kong resident was hanged after being granted a temporary reprieve to spend Christmas with her nine-year-old son.

Samydorai of Think Centre said Singapore is one of the very few developed countries which has kept the death penalty for non-violent crimes like drug trafficking.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Quite basic really, and not sure if all would agree...

Abide by the laws of the country you are in..

Capital punishment has been a contentious issue for as long as there have been laws....but it is not until someone is due to be executed that the public raise there voice........if people are that against it, then lobby !

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

They should have drip fed him all his poison and then forced him to go cold turkey.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

What revenge..........?
Is that right the amount of drugs he was carrying enough to make 5% of Melboune addict... ?
I think the issue is over hyped... in news... there are 100 sorry 1000's killed in name of human rights no one to raise voice...
Why did we did not raise voice for Niger... that hungry place in Africa... why was it not the head line in all the news....
All news channel know is Leslie Michelle... only SBS gave fair justic to all the stories....
coming back... I think we as an australian has made hype of issue. We cannot go to Singapore and enfore or ask them to amend their law and then enfore sanctions... boys are we deplomat or a capitalist person like uncle sam..
its stupidity to carry drugs... as Mr. John Howard expressed 100's of times... and this case is not of 2 tablet its 400 + gms of drugs... senstive issue...
I have no soft corner of revenge... but trust if someone in our house is been addicted with the same... can we forgive such person..

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Amnesty are the biggest bunch of armchair left wing bleeding heart liberal t***pots ever to sit on their fat ar**s. Don't listen to a word of their human rights crap.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

[QUOTE=diddy]1) An interesting statistic that came out of the States a few years ago was that it cost more money to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives.

2) maybe we should ban booze, so what makes Singapore and others so right to say we should kill him for the effects of a different drug.

3) Thought I'd add this from a Yahoo article:QUOTE]

Diddy
Are you serious?
1) Ridiculous
2) Alcohol is hardly addictive compared to heroin (100 times less)
3) All those stats and not one that metioned that the number of drug addicts in Singapore is considerably lower than many other countries per capita.

Andrew

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

In Singapore, drug traffickers get the death penalty.
Van Nguyen knew that in Singapore, drug traffickers get the death penalty.
He then decided that he would attempt to traffic drugs through Singapore.
Where is the debate??

Whether or not we agree or disagree with his sentence is irrelevant.
It is the law of the land, (which we have no right to question) in Singapore, and I'm sure lots of us Oz migrants will testify that there are signs and posters everywhere in Changi Airport informing us of the fate that awaits drug traffickers if they are caught.

Do we say, "let Van Nguyen off. He was just a nice guy who was unlucky to be caught?"
I think not!

While I do in a way feel sorry for him, he knew what he was doing and he knew the risk he was taking.
But he was still dim enough to go through with it, so maybe removing him from the gene pool might not be such a bad thing for The Human Race.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

the law is the law and if people want to reap the possible benefits of their crime, they should also be prepared to take the consequences. That said.....killing this bloke will have zero impact on drug smuggling and peddling - the big crime bosses will just use some other poor person. For my money the government do not do enough to help their citizens when they become trapped in unjust and antiquated judicial systems.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Frankly I'm very glad that some people DO listen to their human rights "cr**" as you put it. Without some of the work they do some of the worst cases of human rights abuses in the world would go unnoticed.

Thousands of women being mutilated and raped each year, prisoners tortured and killed. I'm glad your so comfortable with human suffering whilst you sit in your nice comfy house....

Nothing in this world is perfect, including that organisation, but they certainly contribute more to it than attitudes like that I'm afraid.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

If they dont execute him then that makes it easier for the next idiot to go through. There is no doubt that death penalty will stop some people doing it , i wouldnt bloody do it thats for sure so there's at least one. Would I do it for 5 million dollars and bear the risk of 5 years in jail, yeah maybe (im joking) but would I do it if the potential max risk was death... er no.

Its sad indeed, but the law is the law and he knowingly did something that would/could harm 26,000 people. The singaporians have a fair point, dont muck about with our country or we'll take it seriously and the consequences will be harsh.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

If you are going to make a statement like that, can you back it up with some facts?

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Revenge because there's no possibility of redemption or correction to the persons behaviour - because they'r dead. And studies have shown that major crimes do not decrease when capital punishment is introduced.
So what else can the reason be? Basically "you have done so this so we are going to kill you".

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Death penalty for a drug mule is disproportionate to the crime. 15 years without parole is proportionate. Yes he knew the risks but that does not justify taking his life.

I really think that the UN should oblige that those countries that implement state executions use lethal injection instead of hanging/firing squads/decapitations.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

So far we have had stories of his smuggling drugs to help pay for his brother's legal bills, or his brother's gambling debts and that his brother was being heavied by crims to cough up. Whichever is true, or not, the stories keep morphing.

As a supposedly good citizen, first offense etc., he could have borrowed money to cover his brother or if the family was so much a family as they say they are then they could have taken taken a small mortgage and reported the threats to the police. There must have been other ways to raise the supposed $30K supposedly owing. This side smacks of stories and emotions being manipulated. And the same is happening here.

With all this drama etc I keep thinking of Barlow and Chambers of nearly 20 years ago. We had months of the same stuff leading up to their hanging in Malaysia. Two innocent travellers only bringing back a small amount (what for?) etc. About 12 months after they had been executed it turned out that they had done this more than a few times.

Singapore has all the rights in the world to draft and uphold their laws. We don't find then trying to interfere in our legal process.

He knew when he received his Australian passport that Asian countries had the death penalty for smuggling drugs. He knew when he picked up the consignment in Thailand or Vietnam that they both have the death penalty for drug smugglers and he knew that if he came via Singapore that they too have ........With 4 bloody great neon signs flashing at him at every major point of his journey, he still ignores what 4 different societies tell him. The mind boggles. He has to be a prime contender for one of this year's Darwin Awards.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Just do a google search, use the words communist liberal bleedin heart etc. etc. and make up your own mind. Take a look at their website and look at the causes they support. Note the absence of campaigns for the rights of victims blown up by car bombs and suicide bombers. Or the victims of drug pushers and dealers.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

They campaign against

1/ Violence against women

2/ Weapons

3/ Torture

4/ Death penalty

5/ Child soldiers

and are campaigning for refugees to have more rights.



That's good enough for me, I still find your statement bizarre?

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

Yup....
Pretty much what I said at the end of my last post.

Re: Van Nguyen Execution
 

But are the Darwin awards choosen and presented before next Friday ? Otherwise it will have to be postumous !!!