Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
#61
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
One of my friends status updates at the moment who's based in central London : enjoying watching people strutting about determinedly in A/W clothes, scarfs and furry coats when its 20 degrees and sunny...on Friday - Now surely people not dressing appropriately for the weather as they are wanting to show off their new clothes is pretentious!
Seriously have you got nothing else to do but wonder about why people dress the way they do. Try to think about something else for five minutes. I am starting to find it really very funny that you find other people pretentious and pre-occupied with appearance. You should take a look closer to home, seriously ..
#62
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 517
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
The post was regarding where is more pretentious. I've worked in the industry for 2 and a half years in Melbourne aswell and didn't find it nearly as bad as I did in London. My best friend is from lower east side Manhattan who works in the industry and even she was surprised by the attitudes she was subjected to in London let alone the flack she got for being a yankee!
#63
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Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 11
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
Eh? I have seen people stomp about Sydney in boots and coats lately and I also don't understand why as I wander around in a t-shirt. But seriously, I have never thought that they were being "pretentious" I just thought that maybe they feel the cold more than I do.
Seriously have you got nothing else to do but wonder about why people dress the way they do. Try to think about something else for five minutes. I am starting to find it really very funny that you find other people pretentious and pre-occupied with appearance. You should take a look closer to home, seriously ..
Seriously have you got nothing else to do but wonder about why people dress the way they do. Try to think about something else for five minutes. I am starting to find it really very funny that you find other people pretentious and pre-occupied with appearance. You should take a look closer to home, seriously ..
#64
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Location: Melbourne
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Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
I loved living in London and wouldn't change any of the experiences that I've had. The majority of my time was done doing things I loved and I was very lucky to have had this opportunity. I gained invaluable experience in both my personal and professional life. Unfortunately, there is unpleasant people where ever you go but it takes the bigger person to rise above it. I would definitely live in London again when the time is right (joys of having dual citizenship) as it definitely holds a very special place in my heart.
#65
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
When we lived in the UK I had absolutely no idea what any of my friends earned, how much they had outstanding on their mortgage or how much their car cost. I also was blissfully unaware of what, if anything, they paid for schooling, uniforms and groceries.
However, since being in Australia, I find that I know a lot more than I need to about expats (some who are only passing acquaintances) including their superannuation, pay, holiday costs and even what they put on their tax returns.
A couple of said expats I actually knew when they were in the UK and they certainly seem to have re invented themselves here as affluent with airs and graces.
So for me, people in the UK were far less pretentious.
However, since being in Australia, I find that I know a lot more than I need to about expats (some who are only passing acquaintances) including their superannuation, pay, holiday costs and even what they put on their tax returns.
A couple of said expats I actually knew when they were in the UK and they certainly seem to have re invented themselves here as affluent with airs and graces.
So for me, people in the UK were far less pretentious.
#66
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Joined: May 2007
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 392
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
There is no right answer to this question, Its the same as , is blonde or brunette better, its all in the eye of the beholder.
Uk has dossers and snobs, Oz has Ferrell and stuck up.
Now racist that’s a different ball game.
Uk has dossers and snobs, Oz has Ferrell and stuck up.
Now racist that’s a different ball game.
#67
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
When we lived in the UK I had absolutely no idea what any of my friends earned, how much they had outstanding on their mortgage or how much their car cost. I also was blissfully unaware of what, if anything, they paid for schooling, uniforms and groceries.
However, since being in Australia, I find that I know a lot more than I need to about expats (some who are only passing acquaintances) including their superannuation, pay, holiday costs and even what they put on their tax returns.
A couple of said expats I actually knew when they were in the UK and they certainly seem to have re invented themselves here as affluent with airs and graces.
So for me, people in the UK were far less pretentious.
However, since being in Australia, I find that I know a lot more than I need to about expats (some who are only passing acquaintances) including their superannuation, pay, holiday costs and even what they put on their tax returns.
A couple of said expats I actually knew when they were in the UK and they certainly seem to have re invented themselves here as affluent with airs and graces.
So for me, people in the UK were far less pretentious.
I think that it is more generally acceptable to discuss how much one earns/pays in tax/pays for schooling/paid for a house etc in Australia than it was in the UK.
I can't comment on this London obsession that seems to be happening here, but in the Midlands and West Country, it really wasn't the done thing to ask or tell. The only time I ever really knew how much my compatriots were earning was when I was in government based industries and the pay scales were available for all to see. I certainly never really know what my friends in the private sector were earning.
I have noticed that in Australia, people are much more willing to discuss it in open conversation, to the point of bluntly asking how much you earn/paid for your house/renovations etc. I was brought up with the idea that it's just not polite to discuss it, so I don't, but that doesn't stop them asking again and having to be told that I won't discuss it. This is both expats and locals - it just seems to be much less of a taboo subject.
I do think, however, that there is certainly a superficiality here that is connected to income/earnings and the perception thereof. From personal experience, I was blown out by a girl because I didn't work in finance - and I know that other single guys have encountered the same. Another GF that I had refused to come to my house because she didn't like the suburb that it was in. I used to be a teacher, and my current GF has told me that she wouldn't have considered dating me if I still had been. A chap at work refuses to consider dating anybody with fewer than two degrees and another insists on postgraduate education. Am I the only person who thinks this is all a bit superficial?
Sadly i think that the job/income/perception trinity are rapidly becoming the new 'class' structure here in Australia. You only need to go as far as Balmain in the day to hear all the soccer mums lunching discussing their husband's bonuses, the new SLK and the extension on the house.
Australia is certainly not the classless society it would have you believe it is.
S
#68
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Posts: 397
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
C'mon, seriously. The question isn't whether there are any pretentious people in Australia, or whether Australia is completely classless or not etc. It is which country is more pretentious.
Sure Australia has its pretentious people like everywhere else and it is not a completely classless society over here (tell me where is?), but it is not even in the same ball park as the UK.
You only need to read a lot of the comments on here concerning Australia to get a good idea of how much more concerned people in the UK seem to be about 'culture', 'sophistication' etc. We do have those qualities over here In Australia (culture, sophistication etc.) despite what some would have you believe, but we do not obsess about it. Australia is a far more 'down to earth' nation of people.
A lot of people from the UK come over here (judging from some posts on this forum) and act all precious about how things are rough and unrefined over here and how back in the UK 'we are an all around better, more advanced, sophisticated and intelligent society' etc. then there are the people that try to put Australia down by making out we are all directly related to convicts.
That in itself is pretentious behaviour.
Sure Australia has its pretentious people like everywhere else and it is not a completely classless society over here (tell me where is?), but it is not even in the same ball park as the UK.
You only need to read a lot of the comments on here concerning Australia to get a good idea of how much more concerned people in the UK seem to be about 'culture', 'sophistication' etc. We do have those qualities over here In Australia (culture, sophistication etc.) despite what some would have you believe, but we do not obsess about it. Australia is a far more 'down to earth' nation of people.
A lot of people from the UK come over here (judging from some posts on this forum) and act all precious about how things are rough and unrefined over here and how back in the UK 'we are an all around better, more advanced, sophisticated and intelligent society' etc. then there are the people that try to put Australia down by making out we are all directly related to convicts.
That in itself is pretentious behaviour.
#69
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
Not my perception at all and by that, I don't mean that Australia isn't "down to earth" as you put it, just that the UK I lived in was full of "down to earth" people.
The idea that the UK is full of class conscious people is as misguided as the belief that Australia is a classless society.
The idea that the UK is full of class conscious people is as misguided as the belief that Australia is a classless society.
#70
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Location: herts-sydney-herts-manchester...next stop mornington peninsula?
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Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
I dont work in the glitz and glam world of the media, and I am no where near London. We did try London when we first got back (and I am originally from North London) but after being away for 6 years I couldnt bare it and neither could my husband who had to do the commute each day,
Yes, you are right the uk is full of down to earth people, lots of them. I admit if we lived or moved to a different area things would perhaps be different but I do want my children to go to a good school. Areas with good schools seem to attract this kind of thing. The further out you move the worse it becomes it seems as 'village leaving' is a UK ideal. I see the kind of pretention I witness each day as a means of establishing a social pecking order. The worst one's are those who are desperate to be further up the pecking order than they actually are, maybe?
When I gave birth to my daughter the husband of the woman in the next bed went on and on about how much his house was worth what a great area he lived in and then on asking Dh (finally) whereabouts we were he said 'oh right, you mean with the land fill behind it '
Not everyone is like this-I also have some great friends here who are down to earth. I feel I have to filter a lot more here though than I ever did in oz.
I put my hands up to being guilty, when I lived in sydney, of wearing rose tinted spectacles wrt the uk and I dont want to do the same in reverse.
Yet, I can honestly say though that whilst living in Sydney for those six years I never did come accross this.
Most of us (friends) didnt have cars because there was no point, the street we lived on was an eclectic mix of wealth, students, and jobless who all said 'g'day' regardless. But yes having said that I do get where you are coming from the poster who mentioned Balmain.
I did wonder if things change naturally in this respect when you move from your childfree, single days into your married family days. As I have said I have never had the chance to experience the whole school run thing in oz, only here in the uk.
I am sure some of it is to do with moving into an area rather than having lived in the same one all your life, because friends you've known for that long dont need to ask those questions. They already know.
I have however experienced working life in both countries. Ive been a medical rep in both. I remember clearly my first job in sydney being told my target was to see 8 GPs in a day and I went
I was quite shocked when I got on the road and found I could easily see as many as 10 (although I never told my employer that ).
Why? Cos the Gps in australia are happy to talk to the reps. They will see you in between patients, and do not have any airs or graces. I could not go back to gp repping here because reps are rarely allowed into the practices as the Gps are to protected and treated like demigods.
I know this isn't pretention as such but it is part and parcel of an attitude here, or something I cant quite put my finger on, perhaps it is back to class again.
An aussie once said to me 'Oh we only have three accents/classes here, those who say Fr-ah-nce, and d-ah-nce, those who say fr-a-nce and d-a-nce, and those who dont know what France is and never go to dances'.
Yes, you are right the uk is full of down to earth people, lots of them. I admit if we lived or moved to a different area things would perhaps be different but I do want my children to go to a good school. Areas with good schools seem to attract this kind of thing. The further out you move the worse it becomes it seems as 'village leaving' is a UK ideal. I see the kind of pretention I witness each day as a means of establishing a social pecking order. The worst one's are those who are desperate to be further up the pecking order than they actually are, maybe?
When I gave birth to my daughter the husband of the woman in the next bed went on and on about how much his house was worth what a great area he lived in and then on asking Dh (finally) whereabouts we were he said 'oh right, you mean with the land fill behind it '
Not everyone is like this-I also have some great friends here who are down to earth. I feel I have to filter a lot more here though than I ever did in oz.
I put my hands up to being guilty, when I lived in sydney, of wearing rose tinted spectacles wrt the uk and I dont want to do the same in reverse.
Yet, I can honestly say though that whilst living in Sydney for those six years I never did come accross this.
Most of us (friends) didnt have cars because there was no point, the street we lived on was an eclectic mix of wealth, students, and jobless who all said 'g'day' regardless. But yes having said that I do get where you are coming from the poster who mentioned Balmain.
I did wonder if things change naturally in this respect when you move from your childfree, single days into your married family days. As I have said I have never had the chance to experience the whole school run thing in oz, only here in the uk.
I am sure some of it is to do with moving into an area rather than having lived in the same one all your life, because friends you've known for that long dont need to ask those questions. They already know.
I have however experienced working life in both countries. Ive been a medical rep in both. I remember clearly my first job in sydney being told my target was to see 8 GPs in a day and I went
I was quite shocked when I got on the road and found I could easily see as many as 10 (although I never told my employer that ).
Why? Cos the Gps in australia are happy to talk to the reps. They will see you in between patients, and do not have any airs or graces. I could not go back to gp repping here because reps are rarely allowed into the practices as the Gps are to protected and treated like demigods.
I know this isn't pretention as such but it is part and parcel of an attitude here, or something I cant quite put my finger on, perhaps it is back to class again.
An aussie once said to me 'Oh we only have three accents/classes here, those who say Fr-ah-nce, and d-ah-nce, those who say fr-a-nce and d-a-nce, and those who dont know what France is and never go to dances'.
#71
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Joined: Dec 2005
Location: herts-sydney-herts-manchester...next stop mornington peninsula?
Posts: 94
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
Certainly not. I didn't know the difference of an up market place to a standard place before I moved to London let alone the importance of where you brought your clothes from and being judged on it. Pretentiousness to me is believing that you are above someone else which is something I have never thought. My work has subjected me to being in situations where I have been judged however, I have never judged anyone and have always had the time of day for anyone. My friendship group in London was vast with many from council estates in North London and East London and I never for a second thought that I was above them in fact I spent time living in a council estate in Manor house and not for a second did I have a problem with it I rather enjoyed the keeping it real aspect of it. I did however; think that it was ridiculous that people judged me for it.
#73
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Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 11
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
@Mandoz -
I lived closer to Stamford hill on Bethune Road in one of the tower blocks with my boyfriend and his family for about 6 months. It is predominantly a Jewish Orthodox area (I lived next door to a Synagogue) which seemed to make the area feel safer. My boyfriend had spent nearly his whole life there so knew a lot of people that lived in the area which was nice.
It definitely did have a real community feel to the area and most of the neighbours were really friendly. It is quite green and leafy which is nice and there was a big reservoir behind the flats. It is definitely somewhere that you need to have your wits about you though. Whilst living there, there was one fatal stabbing out the front of our flats and I never did feel safe enough to walk from the tube (manor house) to home after dark on my own. I did find it to be a bit ghettoish with a lot of guys milling around and at times coming up to me which was a bit scary.
They are trying to clean the area up with police presence, the council are in the process of knocking down all of Woodbury downs with the majority of people already being re-homed and in the next few years they will be knocking down the 3 tower blocks on Bethune Rd. It was definitely good life experience living there and on the whole it was good and really convenient to get to central London. I had a lot of nice days out at Finsbury Park which I found to be a really nice park and the fare days were always quite interesting! Instead of buying a ticket at a booth you would pay once on the ride so a lot of people would run on whilst the ride was still moving... crazy! My boyfriend his 2 brothers and 2 sisters all really enjoyed growing up there having moved there from Salford when he was 8 and all turned out successful. What was it like when you went there and when your father lived there?
I lived closer to Stamford hill on Bethune Road in one of the tower blocks with my boyfriend and his family for about 6 months. It is predominantly a Jewish Orthodox area (I lived next door to a Synagogue) which seemed to make the area feel safer. My boyfriend had spent nearly his whole life there so knew a lot of people that lived in the area which was nice.
It definitely did have a real community feel to the area and most of the neighbours were really friendly. It is quite green and leafy which is nice and there was a big reservoir behind the flats. It is definitely somewhere that you need to have your wits about you though. Whilst living there, there was one fatal stabbing out the front of our flats and I never did feel safe enough to walk from the tube (manor house) to home after dark on my own. I did find it to be a bit ghettoish with a lot of guys milling around and at times coming up to me which was a bit scary.
They are trying to clean the area up with police presence, the council are in the process of knocking down all of Woodbury downs with the majority of people already being re-homed and in the next few years they will be knocking down the 3 tower blocks on Bethune Rd. It was definitely good life experience living there and on the whole it was good and really convenient to get to central London. I had a lot of nice days out at Finsbury Park which I found to be a really nice park and the fare days were always quite interesting! Instead of buying a ticket at a booth you would pay once on the ride so a lot of people would run on whilst the ride was still moving... crazy! My boyfriend his 2 brothers and 2 sisters all really enjoyed growing up there having moved there from Salford when he was 8 and all turned out successful. What was it like when you went there and when your father lived there?
#75
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Posts: 16,622
Re: Uk vs Australia which is more pretentious?
You know what - it really depends. I hear these stories of money talk with sympathy. I find people only discuss their finances with you if they trust you or it's part of a process of companionable learning...after all, finance genuinely interests some people. I actually wanted to discuss it as part of being new here, felt awkward and a mate said it was OK as he considered me a friend.
I am left in no doubt that people can get caught up in awkward circles. One of the reasons why I was attracted to my wife is because she comes from a good family, a well educated family - but has never worked in an office or some aspect of finance or business -but was relatively financially independent. Major plus point 'fraid!!
The crazy thing is, in an attempt to remove girlfriends that irritate me from my life I also try to stay clear of some people who have funny ideas of money and have applied silly arbitary tests.... I used to have a thing for girls who were artists(non-arty farty type), teachers, vets, sportswomen, non-profit types - I am looking at you Quoll - or had some sort of private income. If they worked in the tertiary sector they had to be kind and well-rounded - ahem! I see the whole issue as a western suburban problem that way too many people get caught up in.
But I don't mind 'rich bastards' who know what they are doing quite frankly and know how to deal with it. In fact, the pursuit of asthetics is one of life's pleasures...
Me prententious? - as long as I am having a good time..I met a bloke down from Darwin at a wedding yesterday who made a complete buffoon of himself - lots of people rejected him but I thought he was good value...
I am left in no doubt that people can get caught up in awkward circles. One of the reasons why I was attracted to my wife is because she comes from a good family, a well educated family - but has never worked in an office or some aspect of finance or business -but was relatively financially independent. Major plus point 'fraid!!
The crazy thing is, in an attempt to remove girlfriends that irritate me from my life I also try to stay clear of some people who have funny ideas of money and have applied silly arbitary tests.... I used to have a thing for girls who were artists(non-arty farty type), teachers, vets, sportswomen, non-profit types - I am looking at you Quoll - or had some sort of private income. If they worked in the tertiary sector they had to be kind and well-rounded - ahem! I see the whole issue as a western suburban problem that way too many people get caught up in.
But I don't mind 'rich bastards' who know what they are doing quite frankly and know how to deal with it. In fact, the pursuit of asthetics is one of life's pleasures...
Me prententious? - as long as I am having a good time..I met a bloke down from Darwin at a wedding yesterday who made a complete buffoon of himself - lots of people rejected him but I thought he was good value...