Originally Posted by swans

Opening up the argument with common sense.

Originally Posted by UKEagle2Aus

IMO I think you are attempting to mask the debate with 'pure' economic theory Geordie, you conveniently use the term 'competition' to take it to the end of that particular spectrum (a shop on every street corner). Competition amongst the 6 or 7 big supermarket players in the UK has driven down prices (if you don't believe me, then ask anyone who lives there). You then almost labour back on to my point by going on about the big banks and how they can make their profits (are there not half dozen of them?) Where do the competition authorities fit into your argument? I bet the ACCC and their equivalents in other countries aren't just there to ensure monopoly/duopoly (Some might say WW's & Coles here) or Cartels, can carve us all up? BTW, I am an Economics grad, with hons and Dip for my efforts, so I do understand your basic theory, just don't quite agree with the purism of the argument.
No offence intended.

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2

Are you sure?
$2 for one croissant at Baker's Delight?

Originally Posted by Wol

That really says it all about the Australian syndrome re. shops and institutions. They are so brainwashed into parrotting "Oz Oz Oz" and "all other countries are inferior" that they can't see the inconsistency between that and their whingeing about Australian prices and duopolies.

Small example: they go on about the "natural weekly cycle" of petrol prices yet seem to think this is "natural" everywhere else. It isn't - it's purely an Australian scam. But if Tesco was to come in with cheap(er) petrol they would whine about being taken over by foreigners who "don't understand Australia".

Originally Posted by NKSK version 2

"Very reasonable" is sales speak.

Can't vouch for the 6 croissants without seeing the size and tasting the quality.

I have seen, bought and tasted at this end of the country though and after 5 years, I reckon the value of groceries is poor compared with the UK. And increasingly - although I accept that this is distorted by a collapsing pound - family who visit are shocked by the price of groceries.

Originally Posted by swans

I've just checked financials for Tesco and sainsburys.Wow tesco are far biggere than Sainsburys.

Tesco operate on a before tax margin of 5.5 %,I have no idea what company tax is in the UK.

Company tax in OZ is 30%,so woolies would be operating on a pre tax margin of around 5.8%.Not a lot in it is there.

So if we had Tesco here they would be wonderful people because they operate on 5.5%.

Meanwhile the pack of greedy bastards at woolies operate on 5.8%.Don't know how they sleep at night.Wouldn't you think the "guvmint" or the magical and mysterious "they" would do something about this blatant profiteering.

Could that 0.3% difference come from Woolies have to transport articles across vast distances and Tesco's don't.The logistical side of the equation.

Originally Posted by Wol

That really says it all about the Australian syndrome re. shops and institutions. They are so brainwashed into parrotting "Oz Oz Oz" and "all other countries are inferior" that they can't see the inconsistency between that and their whingeing about Australian prices and duopolies.

Small example: they go on about the "natural weekly cycle" of petrol prices yet seem to think this is "natural" everywhere else. It isn't - it's purely an Australian scam. But if Tesco was to come in with cheap(er) petrol they would whine about being taken over by foreigners who "don't understand Australia".

Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee

They all are in Melbourne the last couple of weeks - seems the weekly cycle has been broken temporarily at least.

Buzzy

Originally Posted by manzipoo

What about ASDA WALMART? thats cheaper than Tesco !!
I am hoping to move to Victoria this year and the only thing I will miss about UK is cheap shopping!!

Originally Posted by UKEagle2Aus

Good to see some research going on Swans. You still seem to be arguing at the extremes (IMO). So what if Tesco operate at a similar margin to WW's? There a number of variables involved in getting to that % margin I am sure you must agree? Cost to operate, purchasing power (you have mentioned to be fair) amongst them. If Tescos want to make a profit they will attack all aspects of their operation from staff costs, transport, warehousing, overheads, supplier rates, advertising costs, etc,etc. If you are in a two horse race, you only have one other player to worry about. Add a few more horse's and you hav a proper race on your hands where you have to think about all competitors and make sure you are trained to deliver the best possible result.
Net consumer value can be delivered via Economies of scale I totally agree, however, lazily cutting corners on other aspects of your operations counteracts these potential savings, so the consumer never wins! Competition is the lever to force the two players to get their act together and become more efficient organisations that can deliver value and retain their operating margins.
By the way I know how the Metcash operation works and I have to say they can be impressive (depending on what state your in). If we were to include them in the mix, you might want to include the likes of Spar, Nisa Today, Costcutter and a host of other 'convenience grocer chains' operating in the UK as well, hence sticking to the big two for these purposes.

I will stick to my original statement for the Australian Grocery channel that, Competition will drive down prices, it is an economic fact! Accept and respect your argument that it could be said, "not always"!

Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee

I would be horrified if Tesco opened in Australia. I can walk one block to my local butcher, baker etc which provide excellent quality goods at reasonable prices and a good chat with the chap behind the counter.

If Tescos used any of the tactics in Australia that they have been permitted to use in the UK then I would be able to walk one block to a row of empty graffitied shops with the odd charity shop or all night kebab shop in the middle.

I'm glad Coles and Woolworths have this high-price duopoly, it keeps the local shops in business.

Buzzy

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

You sure about that !!



People in Oz got to Coles or Woolies because, for lots of people, that's all they have to choose from... not because they are cheap.

Originally Posted by bcworld

It's not just me that sees this then.

The small grocers around me are in general no cheaper than the supermarkets - the same is even more true of the local markets. Prahran market prices are steep.

I have found one cheap greengrocer - the quality matches the prices though.

Originally Posted by swans

Do you believe your own bullshit? No other choice my ar--.

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

I have two choices if I want to get the shopping done without spending all bastard day driving from place to place.... and that's Coles and Woolworths...

Originally Posted by exsquaddie

Carrying on from the Tesco vs Coles thread, can anybody confirm the rumours that Tesco is going to come down under as I have been hearing a few, although since I am in Queensland it would probably take another millennium for a branch to open up here. Even then it would only be able to open for business between the hours of 7 and 8 on a Wednesday morning, so as to comply with the wonderfully up to date trading by laws they have here. Also it would not have a booze section as shoppers here it seems cannot be trusted to shop for alcohol and food at the same time just in case they might try and combine the two in some weird and mutated way (Vodka Baked Beans any one?). Perhaps even the entire stock of the supposed future stores would be made up of only Coles and Woolworths brands, so as not to provide unfair competition to the afore mentioned companies (This is probably one of the requirements that has to be met for Tescos to open up down here). If or when Tescos do open up down under you can see the headlines now, (especially in the Courier Mail) "POMMIE BASTARD SUPERMARKET TO OPEN HERE, WHO THE HELL DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?!"

To conclude then, I have probably answered my own question but never the less since living here (specifically in Queensland) I do rather miss 24 hour shopping, the convenience of being able to get everything under one roof, decent ready meals and a little bit more variety..... Oh dear probably gone a bit too far with this one! I am married to an Australian however and I do love this country honest!!! The quality of meat is a 1000 times better down under that’s for sure. If Tesco do come then it might perhaps open the flood gates, just Imagine M & S coming down under, the head lines then might read "POMPUS POMMIE BASTARD DEPARTMENT STORE TO OPEN HERE..".