I may be being thick here, but what are people talking about when they mention losing £20k, or a third of their funds?

I know it's a complex subject, but I thought the only "losses" would be the (15%?) tax on any gains between becoming tax resident and transferring (unless within 6 months), and any fees charged by the transfer company, which it seems can be avoided by DIY.

We have three pension funds between us, two local authority final salary schemes, and one private plan. Any general advice welcome.

OK thanks.

I thought that you could buy basically what you wanted in your SMSF - how do I find out what the requirements are?

thanks

You take some professional advice ...

Best regards.

It's quite easy to do this from the UK if you get in touch with a firm who specialise in QROPS.

A good accountant or IFA should be able to put you in touch with a specialist.

Tosh

Caveat Emptor! As there is concern over how long such a loophole that is so overtly advertised will continue.

HMRC have already closed down the Singapore route

The operation involved have instructed Counsel in Singapore and also London

We believe that there are 3 tiers of QROPS approval:

1 Singapore "pension busting" schemes with no tax payable
2 Schemes which have QROPS into a tax regimen in which no tax is payable on benefits withdrawn ( Despite "Primary Condition 2c " which states :
"all or most of the benefits paid by the scheme to members who are not in serious ill- health are subject to taxation"
3 Schemes that do not "Trust Bust" and which do require some sort of tax to be withheld on benefits paid


HMRC have outlawed type 1 schemes-- and it will be very interesting to see what words are used by HMRC in their vigorous defence of their actions vs.. Singapore . Those who wish to do the same with Hong Kong-- and hope to obtain QROPS approval there-- expect HMRC to close down all such schemes.

Type 2 schemes are the sort of thing advocated by some-- we cannot see this being allowed for long- particularly given Primary condition 2 c as above.

Type 3 schemes are typified by the Isle of Man Approach-- in which IOM Treasury has a good relationship with HMRC. We will either lose business to type 2 schemes assuming all Type 1s will be closed down, and then wish that we had looked harder at the 18% rates, or sit back and wait for Type 2 schemes to be closed down in due course and then try to deal with all the enquiries that come rushing at us.

Do you really want the bother not to mention the additional legal expense in sorting out schemes which have been subsequently disallowed by HMRC, as the schemes' Trustees have been removed as fit and proper persons and the schemes' QROPS approval has been rescinded?

It is either very exciting or a gravy train for Legal counsel and we can see trouble ahead for schemes that incur the wrath of HMRC, as well as trouble for their advisers who have given advice to their own clients to take these aggressive options as above!

see :
www://freemypension.com/QROPS/qrops-singapore-loses-approved-status-from-hmrc/#more-32

for some info:

I trust this helps!

Kind Regards

Tim
Managing Director

Simcocks Pensions Ltd Company Number: 106299C
Registered Office: Ridgeway House, Ridgeway Street, Douglas, Isle of Man IM99 1PY
Tel +44 (0)1624 690300 Fax +44 (0)1624 690333

Directors: Timothy C Boles FSI (Managing), Phil Games, David Spencer

Simcocks Pensions Limited is authorised by the Isle of Man Insurance and Pensions Authority
Simcocks Pensions Limited is a member of the Simcocks group of Companies

Caveat Emptor! As there is concern over how long such a loophole that is so overtly advertised will continue.

HMRC have already closed down the Singapore route

Those who are involved have instructed Counsel in Singapore and also London

The Isle of Man Treasury Assessor believes that there are 3 tiers of QROPS approval:

1 Singapore "pension busting" schemes with no tax payable
2 Schemes which have QROPS into a tax regimen in which no tax is payable on benefits withdrawn ( Despite "Primary Condition 2c " which states :
"all or most of the benefits paid by the scheme to members who are not in serious ill- health are subject to taxation"
3 Schemes that do not "Trust Bust" and which do require some sort of tax to be withheld on benefits paid


HMRC have outlawed type 1 schemes-- and it will be very interesting to see what words are used by HMRC in their vigorous defence of their actions vs.. Singapore . Some have said that they will do the same with Hong Kong-- and hope to obtain QROPS approval there-- expect HMRC to close down all such schemes.

Type 2 schemes are the sort of thing advocated by some alternatives-- we cannot see this being allowed for long- particularly given Primary condition 2 c as above.

Type 3 schemes are typified by the Isle of Man approach-- in which Treasury has a good relationship with HMRC. We will either lose business to type 2 schemes assuming all Type 1s will be closed down, and then wish that we had looked harder at the 18% rates, or sit back and wait for Type 2 schemes to be closed down in due course and then try to deal with all the enquiries that come rushing at us.

Do you really want the bother not to mention the additional legal expenses in sorting out schemes which have been disallowed by HMRC, as the schemes' Trustees have been removed as fit and proper persons and the schemes' QROPS approval has been rescinded?

It is either very exciting for less aggressive schemes and a gravy train for Legal counsel as we can see trouble ahead for schemes that incur the wrath of HMRC, as well as trouble for their advisers who have given advice to their own clients to take these aggressive options as above!

see :
www://freemypension.com/QROPS/qrops-singapore-loses-approved-status-from-hmrc/#more-32

for some info:

I trust this helps!

Kind Regards

Tim
Managing Director

Simcocks Pensions Ltd Company Number: 106299C
Registered Office: Ridgeway House, Ridgeway Street, Douglas, Isle of Man IM99 1PY
Tel +44 (0)1624 690300 Fax +44 (0)1624 690333

Directors: Timothy C Boles FSI (Managing), Phil Games, David Spencer

Simcocks Pensions Limited is authorised by the Isle of Man Insurance and Pensions Authority www.simcocks.com
Simcocks Pensions Limited is a member of the Simcocks group of Companies

What loophole?

I just said that REST have QROPS status.

the loophole I menetioned is the way in which you collect tax relief on UK pension contributions-- then transfer to a QROPS

And then collect it 100% tax free

This sort of thing was always going to anger HMRC! And HMRC have now closed down Singapore- who did this!

regards
Tim

Just last month I successfully transferred my U.K. pension from Friends Provident to a QROPS. The whole job took about a month and cost me a transfer fee of 10% of my fund. I was able to withdraw the remaining 90% of my fund in cash.

I know this kind of deal is not for everyone but it made me pretty happy!

Who got the 10%?

When did you move to Australia?

Best regards.

The firm that arranged the transfer for me

I left the U.K. 7 years ago. I now live 8-9 months each year in US, 3-4 months in Australia (family split). As I get older though the traveling gets harder. One day soon I'll have to make my mind up.

Dear ExPat

Just to warn you and potentially others-- HMRC have recently added the following to their QROPS website wef 6.10.08.

It seems as though HMRC are preparing the ground for subsequent unauthorised payment charges (of 55%) on members! See

"Qualifying Recognised Overseas Pension Schemes (QROPS)
Publication Date: 06/10/08.
This is a list of Qualifying Recognised Overseas Pension Schemes
(QROPS) that have consented to have their details published – not all
QROPS will necessarily feature within it.
It is not to be taken as a recommendation for a particular scheme or
product.
This list is based on information provided to HMRC by these schemes when
applying to be a QROPS. As part of its application the scheme notifies HMRC
that it fulfils the requirements for being a “recognised overseas pension
scheme”. Publication on the list should not be seen as confirmation by HMRC
that it has verified all the information supplied by the scheme in its application.
If a scheme has been included on this published list in circumstances where it
should not have been included because it did not satisfy the conditions to be a
recognised overseas pension scheme, any transfer that has been made to
that scheme could potentially give rise to an unauthorised payments charge
liability for the member(see RPSM14102020).
The transfer could also give rise to a scheme sanction charge on the scheme
and to an unauthorised payments surcharge on the member. Where the
scheme administrator has relied on the fact that the overseas pension
scheme is included on the latest published list (and can demonstrate if
required that it checked the list no more than one day before the transfer was
made) and did so in good faith, this should normally provide just and
reasonable grounds for HMRC to discharge any liability of the scheme
administrator to the scheme sanction charge (see RPSM 14101050 and
RPSM04104870). This should also normally provide just and reasonable
grounds for HMRC to discharge any liability of the member to the
unauthorised payments surcharge. (However, as referred to above there may
still be an unauthorised payment charge liability for the member in these
circumstances - see RPSM 04104020.)
The list will be updated twice a month (if there are any changes to the
previous list).
General guidance on QROPS is provided in chapter 14 of the Registered
Pension Schemes Manual Technical Pages."

Best of luck!
regards

Tim

Unfortunately I needed the cash urgently to stay afloat. If the choice is between losing my house and risking a possible future tax charge, that's an easy decision.

Anyway, I don't live in the U.K. so what are they going to do, write me a nasty letter?