How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
Jan 6th 2007, 7:14 pm
#61
Ex BE ***** Addict
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,770
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
Remind me again how we got from stolen rubber round firing RPG's to Gallipoli? I've forgotten and my IE7 wont show me the begining of the thread!
Jan 6th 2007, 7:41 pm
#63
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
The reality for sci-fi dreamers and walts like Arkon is that all armies are all perfect androids who do 'missions' and have armouries full of hundreds of weapons they can 'choose' from. It's all expertise gleaned from comic books and film. lol.
Most people know:
i) all armed forces are not immune to error or criminal elements - the job reflects
human nature in some ways more. It always makes me laugh when the papers discuss military ops in general.
ii) Sweeping generalisation - Australian military personnel are as respected as British personnel in many theatres partly because they model closely on the Brit system like frankly many countries do. In some roles I would imagine the Aussie bushman to be a model soldier.
Most people know:
i) all armed forces are not immune to error or criminal elements - the job reflects
human nature in some ways more. It always makes me laugh when the papers discuss military ops in general.
ii) Sweeping generalisation - Australian military personnel are as respected as British personnel in many theatres partly because they model closely on the Brit system like frankly many countries do. In some roles I would imagine the Aussie bushman to be a model soldier.
Jan 6th 2007, 7:45 pm
#64
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
Jan 6th 2007, 9:02 pm
#65
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
I was just contemplating this when I put my daughter to bed.
The real worth of an army can often be approximately determined by other i) armys' opinion of it and it's approx standing in a kind of world subjective ranking (with some allowances and adjustments made here and there) ii) it's recent deployments and overall operational experience
iii) it's society
i) australian (especially SF) forces are respected
ii) Brit forces have experience over many theatres and role types - both living and recent and some generations in the making. eg modern jungle warfare goes back to Malaya in the 50s. ADF have experience in East Timor and Gulf. The East Timor experience and style would make them, in my opinion, eclipse the Americans who have always been very weak in counter-insurgency operations. I expect this to have improved..
iii) Some people like to point to the British military 'success' as reflective of good old fashioned Brit societal values etc etc.
This is an area where I'm sure many Australian critics would perhaps have you believe Australian forces are weakened...(!)
I recall a story on this forum of an Aussy journo asking in a conference what the opinion of Aussy forces in theatre was. This was seized on as being typical of the Australian self-doubt etc etc.(insert usual) Frankly I disagreed. Most people know that Aussie forces (especially SF) are well respected and if anything, this was a bit of a poke at the Americans - who often are not respected and are quite easy to wind up in this regard and come near the bottom of respected troops even if their ability to project firepower is unquestioned..the question was a bit of self-indulgence in my opinion.
The real worth of an army can often be approximately determined by other i) armys' opinion of it and it's approx standing in a kind of world subjective ranking (with some allowances and adjustments made here and there) ii) it's recent deployments and overall operational experience
iii) it's society
i) australian (especially SF) forces are respected
ii) Brit forces have experience over many theatres and role types - both living and recent and some generations in the making. eg modern jungle warfare goes back to Malaya in the 50s. ADF have experience in East Timor and Gulf. The East Timor experience and style would make them, in my opinion, eclipse the Americans who have always been very weak in counter-insurgency operations. I expect this to have improved..
iii) Some people like to point to the British military 'success' as reflective of good old fashioned Brit societal values etc etc.
This is an area where I'm sure many Australian critics would perhaps have you believe Australian forces are weakened...(!)
I recall a story on this forum of an Aussy journo asking in a conference what the opinion of Aussy forces in theatre was. This was seized on as being typical of the Australian self-doubt etc etc.(insert usual) Frankly I disagreed. Most people know that Aussie forces (especially SF) are well respected and if anything, this was a bit of a poke at the Americans - who often are not respected and are quite easy to wind up in this regard and come near the bottom of respected troops even if their ability to project firepower is unquestioned..the question was a bit of self-indulgence in my opinion.
Jan 6th 2007, 9:48 pm
#66
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2006
Location: Linton Travel Tavern
Posts: 163
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
So, will this thread help speed up my visa application?..............................
Jan 6th 2007, 10:08 pm
#67
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2005
Location: Mornington
Posts: 1,650
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
This is very true.
A few years ago I was at Colchester military prison and was talking to a Petty officer there.
I asked what crimes the inmates were there for and he replied that the Navy, Army and Airforce has approx 110000-130000 people in there ranks and if you compared this to a town of a similar size in the UK you would have the odd murder, rape, assaults and theft etc and it is no different in the forces. The same crimes are committed as they are on civvy st.
Jan 6th 2007, 10:25 pm
#68
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
This is very true.
A few years ago I was at Colchester military prison and was talking to a Petty officer there.
I asked what crimes the inmates were there for and he replied that the Navy, Army and Airforce has approx 110000-130000 people in there ranks and if you compared this to a town of a similar size in the UK you would have the odd murder, rape, assaults and theft etc and it is no different in the forces. The same crimes are committed as they are on civvy st.
A few years ago I was at Colchester military prison and was talking to a Petty officer there.
I asked what crimes the inmates were there for and he replied that the Navy, Army and Airforce has approx 110000-130000 people in there ranks and if you compared this to a town of a similar size in the UK you would have the odd murder, rape, assaults and theft etc and it is no different in the forces. The same crimes are committed as they are on civvy st.
Jan 6th 2007, 11:17 pm
#69
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
Kept going because I thought it would get better - I should know by now
Jan 7th 2007, 1:25 am
#70
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,196
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
I was just contemplating this when I put my daughter to bed. The real worth of an army can often be approximately determined by other i) armys' opinion of it and it's approx standing in a kind of world subjective .....................are not respected and are quite easy to wind up in this regard and come near the bottom of respected troops even if their ability to project firepower is unquestioned..the question was a bit of self-indulgence in my opinion.
I could not tell you which cities/regions we (UK) hold presently, or even the death toll, yet the US actions are splashed all over.
The average American has absolutely no concept of the British soldier except that his Government tells him we are allies and therefore he must be a "worthy combatant"....
....Then you get the comments about red coats.....How far a swim is it to Oz ??????
Jan 7th 2007, 1:34 am
#71
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
Check the figures, the Brits lost over 21000 while the ANZACS lost some 11500.
The offensive was under the command of Kitchener and Hamilton the Sea Battle before it in the Dardanelles was Churchill, its a common mistake that is made.
Jan 7th 2007, 5:25 am
#72
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
Further advance on figures
Brits 43,000 killed
Anzacs 12000 killed
French 5000 killed.
Lord Kitchener in his wisdom gave the defeat to the Anzacs because the Brits had already had too many defeats.To let the public know about the loss of Brits would have been political suicide.
This obviously worked because over the mists of time many people do not even know their were any Brits their.
Last edited by canifixit; Jan 7th 2007 at 5:46 am. Reason: wrong name
Jan 7th 2007, 7:18 am
#73
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
O.K. here goes :-
Further advance on figures
Brits 43,000 killed
Anzacs 12000 killed
French 5000 killed.
Lord Kitchener in his wisdom gave the defeat to the Anzacs because the Brits had already had too many defeats.To let the public know about the loss of Brits would have been political suicide.
This obviously worked because over the mists of time many people do not even know their were any Brits their.
Further advance on figures
Brits 43,000 killed
Anzacs 12000 killed
French 5000 killed.
Lord Kitchener in his wisdom gave the defeat to the Anzacs because the Brits had already had too many defeats.To let the public know about the loss of Brits would have been political suicide.
This obviously worked because over the mists of time many people do not even know their were any Brits their.
Jan 7th 2007, 8:29 am
#74
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
I've just seen on the news that half a dozen rocket launchers were stolen from the military and then sold to home grown terrorists! It seems to me a much better anti terrorist measure would be better padlocks rather than wasting time on ID cards and extending citizenship waiting periods, which deter terrorists how exactly?
I just hope they keep the shed locked up that contains the tank.
I just hope they keep the shed locked up that contains the tank.
Jan 7th 2007, 8:44 am
#75
Ex BE ***** Addict
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,770
Re: How did the Oz army lose 6 anti tank rocket launchers?
It's ok Kiwi_child, I think we have all decided it's OK now, apparently they don't cause much damage and are probably best used as a door stop.