It has nothing to do with the system, but your parents. Trust me, any educator will tell you that it is the home environment and the parents that make the biggest difference. Look at a gruop of 5 year olds and already you can tell the ones that are reading etc are because parents have taught them and instilled in them the right means to succeed at school - *all things being equal*. Look at the top 5pc in any class and I will almost bet the parents have had an input.

I was reading at 3. I was years ahead at school as a result, I was reading books for 12 years old when I was 8 etc.

I am sick of people blaming just schools, and the 'system'. I know stacks of aussies and Brits that do very well at school because of their parents not the school. Teach a kid to read, and the rest will be self-taught - I remember doing Pythoragas about 3 years ahead of the class because I taught myself.
If your kids are not learning enough at school, teach them yourself.

badge

Alot of schooling is teaching the will if not the results. I remember a kid who did no work and apparently seemed to fail the system but emerged late when it mattered and came top of the class. Bit of a dark horse. That is why there is no point in testing kids every 5 mins in the 3 Rs. Pointless. Teach them to help themselves and use a bit of iniative and the rest will come - if they want it.

For me it was not the 'system' ,it was me, and the parents.

Badge

I agree to a point. But once your kids get to high school you are not their major influence. My son did exceptionally well in primary school. Before he went into high school I was warned by his teachers that he may have difficulty there. They would not be able to cater to his individual needs because of the system.

They were right. The system is about ticking boxes and passing tests - not nurturing an interest and excitement about learning. Our parenting did not change, but the school did and he started failing. I was advised by his teacher and others that I should think about moving him into a private school (with a scholarship). He still loved learning and studied at home subjects he enjoys - maths, physics, politics. But they were way ahead of the school curriculum. I was advised to stop him reading this advanced stuff and buy him books relating to the school curriculum (which bored him silly). He was told in his first year that reading Lord of the Flies was inappropriate.

His school in oz has transformed him. Again, our parenting has not changed, only his school environment.

So, unfortunately once into high school, it is about the school, the system and mates - not so much parents. However, you do have a lot of influence when they are young. If you read lots and discuss things, they will do the same. But don't think many parents could, or should take their child out of school and educate him/her themselves. Although things were getting pretty desperate in the uk, and I did think about it.

Rachel

Unfortunately the school system is not about initiative. I made the mistake of teaching my kids to question and explore issues - not just accept things because everyone else does. I then had to try and explain to a teenage boy why he had to reverse what I had been telling him to succeed in the system. He noted that school was not about learning, but about passing tests 'so the school would look good' he argued that 'the system did not care about him as an individual, only the scores he could get for them'. He regularly got into trouble for pointing things out and voiceing his opinions. They even sent him to the school psychologist (for his lack of motivation and attitude). His analysis of the session was 'he just wanted to find ways that I could manage my boredom in class and perform well for the school - he wasn't interested in why I am bored'.

I had to keep telling him not to question 'why' but just do the work - think long term - play their game and you will come out with a ticket to uni.

Didn't work.

Here, he is allowed to use his initiative, if he backs it up. For example, he wanted to do a project on the laws surrounding marijuana. In the uk - I would have got yet another letter from the school. Here, he was told that if it was well written, balanced and referenced then that was fine. He got an A+.

I agree with you - diplomacy, tact and negotiation go along way. Teachers and heads seem to listen especially if your argument is faultless. They have to cater for all so are excusable for not catering or are irritated by the occasional bright spark. Your boy sounds great. The secret is alot of pragmatism, but of course it can be hard. I've been mixing pragmatism, playing the game and iniative all my life - the secret is knowing when to play which stroke.

Badge

I was so cocky when we arrived that my kid would be top of her class and should be moved onto the next grade.

From all the parents who report on here that their children are gifted, progressed up the grades, etc. I'd foolishly believed my child would be miles ahead of her Australian peers.

What tosh! Despite her being in the top third of a very good school in the UK she's emotionally in the right grade here and she's academically different but not better and by no means requires special attention.

She wasn't up to their level in IT where the rest of her class were creating animations; she wasn't up to their level in storytelling where they're taught to create a plan, plot, characters, integrate all this with actual locations and timelines, etc. and this for an 8 year old; she couldn't climb along the monkey bars or sit on top!! She's working on all of these skills now and loves it.

So she's very happy with their relaxed attitude (like being allowed to take her shoes off in class, like their simple uniform policy - if it's blue it'll do) and loves the fact that a guide dog in training is in her class.

As far as how we compare. Well Australian children often start school later with 4 year olds often held back till nearly six so that they won't be disadvantaged by being the youngest. I'm not following this mould as my youngest is very sociable, had already been in infants in school in the UK and anyone who knows him thinks he's ready (besides I couldn't keep him busy enough for another year). There was research in the UK that said boys eldest in their year were most likely to excell in sports,etc because they were stronger and more developed and if he doesn't seem happy or to be developing alongside the older kids I'll keep him back a year later.

Finally for all the delay in sending the kids they actually catch up the time. They have exactly 40 weeks term-time a year (although teachers are usually happy to let them take time out to go on family holidays where they can learn plenty) and they do work them hard.

So for my kid the Australian school is excellent, so was the UK school - they concentrate on different things but my child was happy at both, learning at both and respected at both.

I don't think I will bother trying to crack a funny any more - life is too short

That is a great idea, I'll keep that in mind when I'm paying the taxes to pay for people who have a secure job which is to TEACH my children. I didn't realize that it's my job. I can't wait to get my first paycheque!!!! Will each of their teachers give me a percentage of their wage (that I help to pay)? I actually have my own job, which I do very well. If I fail at my job it's somehow considered MY responsibility, I guess I should have been a teacher! Simply put in most occupations it is the responsibility of the person being paid to do what their job requires....period. Why, when teachers are to teach all children regardless of their learning styles and homelife do people excuse incompetence and once again blame the parents. Fifty years ago parents were not pouring over all their childrens homework for hours a night, and most of those kids (now in their 50, 60 and 70's) spell, read multiply etc. 100 times better than their children and grandchildren. Their is no discipline allowed in schools, not enough exercise and playtime, and in Canada they have "creative spelling" where they are allowed to write in a journal and spell however they please. They can spell a word incorrectly 20 times and thats OK?! It's ridiculous! They can't spell when they get to high school and no one can figure out why. It is a teachers job to teach and if parents help by working with their kids at home, than that is a bonus for the teacher and their job is easier, but it is not our job!!! We teach them morals and values, manners, respect for themselves and for others, that is our job and not the schools. There is an entire generation as I stated earlier that are educated better than kids today, they had less money than we do, many had an absentee father at war, and busy mothers, the schools were better and they were lucky to be educated in the "old fashioned" method that actually worked.

nicanjoe

Although I do see your point I have to agree with Badge on this one. I stick by my statements that it is as much the parents responsibility as the teachers to educate their kids. I am not suggesting that you spend all your spare time with your child and a pile of books but at the very least you should be spending time with them in their younger years to supplement what they have been taught in school. I believe that teachers do their best given the resources they have. No, I am not a teacher, I'm a nurse and it's the same in my occupation. People often expect you to do everything for them and then when they havent put any effort in themselves and a problem arises then its all your fault .

I reckon that parents should take responsibility for their kids a lot more than they do. I also think that it is an unfair comparison to compare todays education system to that of 50-60 years ago. The world has changed significantly in this time as has the lessons taught. Less emphasis is placed on the 3 Rs and more on other lessons, for instance, there was no such thing as computer lessons back then.

Again, this is only my opinion on the subject!!!

Tracey

There is much in what you say - what parents have a responsibility to teach their kids and what teachers should teach are completely different. As parents, it's our job to teach them about being a decent, honest person - to equip them with the values they need for a happy, successful and productive life. The job of our teachers is to provide them with the information and knowledge they need to do that.

I would say that as parents, our job is to provide encouragement for learning and to stimulate a child's desire to learn. To encourage the habit of learning, if you like. Badge is right - you can tell children whose parents offer that extra stimulation at home. A child who is given books at an early age, and who is encouraged to read with mum and dad, and who sees their own parents reading regularly and enjoying books, is far more likely to be an accomplished and enthusiastic reader than a child whose stimulation at home consists of a TV or computer game, and whose parents never pick up a book. Likewise children who help with shopping and play games at home that encourage simple addition and subtraction are more likely to find arithmetic easy at school. It's not about doing the teacher's job for them - it's about paving the way, providing the learning environment, and being a lifelong learning facilitator. Parents who home educate - as we nearly did - don't teach their children - they facilitate their learning, and that is completely different.

When you think about it, teachers can only perform as well as their slowest students allow them to. They are constrained by stupid rules and regulations that don't permit discipline, they have classes that are far too large to allow for any individual attention to anyone struggling, and they are constantly trying to meet unreasonable government targets. If they're lucky they don't get assaulted or abused, and they work under stress levels that my teachers couldn't dream of. I wouldn't be a teacher for all the tea in China!

Sue

I agree that parents can help form a love of learning and of course good study habits, but the teachers must take much of the responsibility. We have small class sizes, 20 or so, but instead of using that to their advantage, the teachers open up the divider in the middle and have two teachers and 40 students, they don't sit in rows but in groups of four or five facing each other! Then teachers complain that students are distracted, come on, there is such a thing as common sense that seems to be absent in my opinion. I have three children born of the same parents being raised in the same house. My two older children are in grades 5 and 2, my grade five loves to read and write stories and always has, struggles a little with math, but when we go over things a few times at home she is fine. My grade two child struggles to read any words and gets chronic and severe headaches during the school year. He is brilliant in math, but his fine motor skills are so weak that it takes him about 30 minutes to write two sentences. One of the first books he was given in grade 1 was called 'what doesn't belong here' how is he supposed to feel when he can't read any of the words! His confidence has gone way down and he believed he would never be able to read. My friend went out and bought him a Dick and Jane book, last month it uses small words that are repeated over and over. Well, he can read it! So every night he reads and his confidence grows, so he doesn't hate reading because he is successful at it. The school should get that! Don't give early readers books like 'what doesn't belong here, who can read 'doesn't' at 5 and 6 years old! Some kids will learn easily no matter what, they are lucky, just like some kids can dance with grace and some have two left feet everyone is different, but if your job is to teach a child how to read then you darn well find a way. I have dealt with a lot of teachers, and some are better than others like it or not, just like in every profession, some teachers can make or break a childs academic career, and if people want teachers to be praised for making a positive difference in a childs life (which many many do!) which they should be, then they also have to accept the fact that some teachers make things worse for kids. I have been told by teachers, that my daughter was very quiet so they just gave her B's (marks here are ABCD etc.) instead of A's because they just didn't really know if she understood the work. It's the teachers responsibility to find out what a student knows, not the childs job to go tell them. The same year a different teacher gave her A's. I was also told that children learn to read and write by osmosis, now I ask you, if you were going to have heart surgery would you feel confident in a doctor that had learned medicine through osmosis?... I wouldn't either because thats not how people learn. Anyway that's my vent, don't get me on to the school system, it makes me crazy!!!! By the way some of the nicest teachers have been my son's who is struggling, they are good to him and concerned for him and believe me I know the importance of kindness, but no one thought to find books he could read except for the phonics books I bought him and the Dick and Jane book I mentioned before.

nicanjoe

Bang on. You know, frankly I am sick of people who can only think in black and white and blame ''systems'' when it comes to education. It is very sad, really it is. In fact I think it is tragic. I would only be interested in what a child was learning compared to somewhere else as an interest.

In Australia some of the most balanced, sporty, academic and well adjusted kids I have met have been brought up on cattle stations - and don't even go to school!

I agree that some parents don't have time to be formal teachers, but it is up to the parent to instill that x factor to help them long before formal education starts. That's the key. Teachers, am I right?

The kids might not turn out to be academic - no matter - they have the attitude to learn.

badge

you sound angry! Systems have changed, you are right, 60 years ago the basics were reinforced in a way they are not now. Teachers probably can't teach like that anymore even if they wanted to. But that it is not the issue, it still starts at home.

Badge

I am angry your right! My kids have only one chance to be educated and they are being used as guinea pigs to try out this new method of teaching and you mark my works, in about 10 to 20 years from now (just like they did with open concept classrooms) the powers that be will say oops, well that didn't work, now we'll try something else. My sister pulled her children to home school them, and of course they excelled and are back in the system in high school doing great. I pay money so that educated people can do the job they were trained to do. Why can't they enforce the basics like they used to do? We all know it works. In Canada there is actually a theory that the education system is "dumbing down" children. It is believed that our society is too top heavy (sorry guys, not talking about Canadian women lol) so in order to have more skilled and lower end workers they are teaching to about one quarter of the students. The way students are being taught makes it very difficult to learn except for the few students that are 'gifted' other than that children will not be raised to reach their full potential and more students than ever will never make it to University therefore having less people in top positions. I can't bring myself to believe that it is that calculated but that is exactly what is happening. I can't comment on the education system elsewhere, but I can tell you that people in Canada will still say the British system is leaps and bounds ahead of our system.

nicanjoe

and you know what, the very methods that worked 50 years ago were reinforced by appropriate levels of discipline - the strap if need be(!) - which might have made a difference!

Badge