Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I think you need a holiday.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

This is just bullying bullsh*t Vash and you know it.

Stop trying to change accepted definitions to suit your own defence of the indefensible.

Deregulation - process by which governments remove restrictions on business in order to (in theory) encourage the efficient operation of markets.

Therefore regulation - imposing restrictions on business.

Part of free market economics but most definitely not the same as privatisation - never has been never will be.

You can't just say "What I meant was...." just to enable you to justify the regulation which goes on in Australia.

And lets not forget that I introduced regulation into this debate - if you don't understand the term then spend more time reading instead of spending hours trying to put down arguments.

US-UK flights are not the same as resticting entry to the whole country. As with all things you - especially you Vash - will always find an exception to general circumstances.

JETSTAR/VALUAIR - what a vacuous defence. My point still stands - acquisition of Valuair by Qantas and canceling of Perth services to Singapore - hence average prices to Singapore increase. You've just supported the argument.

Energy etc - there you again - conveniently forgetting the fact that you began stating that the energy industry was deregulated. IT IS NOT - apologies Vash if you don't understand deregulation but the industries I mentioned are NOT DEREGULATED. Hence there are restrictions on business to prevent efficient operation of markets. And in the UK - yes you can change suppliers of electricity and gas whenever you want - you can't do that in Australia. Major difference. Australia energy supply regulated - UK deregulated.

What the hell has the height of a wall in a British bathroom got to do with the deregulation of markets - or is this an example of your misunderstanding again?

I'll admit the error on government ownership of Qantas. Perhaps a better point is that the government prevents more than 49.9% of foreign ownership of Qantas.

In summary Vash you've obviously spent some time wondering how you could possibly attack what was originally posted.

By redefining words, and adding red herrings (e.g. the newspaper distribution figure of 79% is actually about wholesale distribution - nothing to do with retail which is what I was talking about - I've not even begun to look at wholsale carve-ups in Australia) you have yet again blustered your way through a long, defence of something which is just uindefensible.

So your post:

Superannuation isn't regulated; energy isn't regulated; the airline industry isn't deregulated.

Etc., etc.

So which regulated markets did you have in mind?


Well, I had in mind the energy industry because it is regulated. The airline industry - because it is regulated. And everything else that I added.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

The financial services industry has been regulated for ages in both the UK and Australia. It's considered a necessary thing - I believe.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I think everyone is actually making the same rather general point - which is that much *interference* (to avoid squabbling over definitions) is counterproductive.

Things which are actually *requirements* in one country are *prohibited* on safety grounds in another: now, where on earth is the logic there?

Example - in our new home in the States ten years ago we were *made* to have a power point close to the kitchen sink. It was "code". In another country this would be a definite no-no. We had to have bathroom sockets - same argument.

The world is getting more and more "regulated" by meddling "authorities", from supranational entities (and the EU comes unbidden to mind <g>), through governments, state governments, shire authorities, local councils and so on down to the baker's dog.

Each throws in their own pet obsessions - and often one will countermand another even in the same country.

It's bl**dy madness!

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

As much as I enjoy ignoring you I can't let this one go. My 1st job ever was making coffees so I suppose I could have been called a barista! So now who's the numpty. Try getting a job here pulling coffees without the training at the Tafe and then tell me that’s not regulation. Just because it might not be written in law, the fact you can't get a job making a coffee without it proves just what nonsense you speak. I was self taught and all I needed was pointing in the direction of the 3 phase switch that turned the coffee rig on. It didn't take long to learn how to make all the different drinks well.

The reason I use the coffee Tafe course as an example is that it just so much sums up this ridiculous country. I can guarantee that if you had a job as a barista for a few years but god forbid without the piece of paper from the tafe to say you were qualified, you would find it extremely hard to get another job as one regardless of how much experience you had previously.

Ask any skilled pom already here just how much their skills and previous experience was actually worth when they tried to get a job here. Name me another country that makes a skilled multi-disciplined sparky with 10 years experience have to go on another course designed for a school leaver just to be able to continue practicing when they get here? And then only allowed to work in a much more restricted range of what he’s allowed to do without going on more courses!

As always vash you sit in your sheltered environment with your romantic memories of Australia to comfort you with no real idea what you need to go through to get a decent job out here and for some unknown reason actually believe your own nonsense that somehow the UK is more of a nanny state than Australia.

This is without a shadow of a doubt in my mind the most nanny state I’ve ever been to, Far worse because your not allowed to be an adult and the state treats you more like a child than an adult. FFS there was even an advert on telly today reminding parents to give their children breakfast, and don’t leave your kids in a car as there have been 22 deaths and 168 injuries from kids left to cook in locked cars this year so far.

Ok don’t bother replying as vent over and I’m putting you back on ignore, It’s bad enough listening to thick Ozzies on MAX FM every day but to get one on here too is just more than my buffers can take…

Nearly forgot my sources:- Aussie owner of a ice cream parlour & Aussie owner of a coffee shop

shite forgot to underline them sorry. Try again Aussie owner of a ice cream parlour & Aussie owner of a coffee shop


To every one else, sorry for the incoherence of my argument as it took me so long to colour everything in that I forgot what I was on about and couldn’t re-read it after it was coloured in as the text was so full of tags it gave me a headache.

Nearly forgot also, does anyone want to buy a caravan? Advert

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I know you like sources Vash – so here are some for reference – couldn’t post them earlier because I had breakfast to organise…

Source

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Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/MSB11/stupid.gif

I'm currently trying to find a job here...and one company has asked me to provide proof that my MBA is valid to Australian Standards. Fantastic, there is no Australian standard that exists!.. my MBA school is one of a few that is accredited with all 3 major orgs globally and was ranked in the top 20 by the EIU. AFAIK the top Aussie school just hit the 70's and very few, if any, are accredited by any of the UK/EU/US organisations.

But, no I have to go some g'ment agency and wait 6 weeks for a piece of paper that everyone I have already spoken agrees will only tell me what is blindingly obvious to anyone with a bit of common sense, or who could be ar$ed making a decision themselves.

But as with others who have gone through the long slog of looking for work here, some of the so-called quality companies have been surprisingly poor when you actually get 'up-close' to them. I would go as far as saying that after a good interview with Qantas I was seriously wondering if this was a company I would want to work for - and that's coming from someone who needs to get to work :D

As to the good hard working Aussies - I should have seen the warning signs when we first arrived chasing up the shippers, I don't think one call was returned, and then when I asked why I was constantly chasing them up, them claimed to be very busy...but not busy to start work before 9 or to hang around after 5 to clear some paperwork out of the way :confused: :confused: .

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

For a start, everyone knows MBAs mean zilch. Seen enough dunderheads waving them around to last a lifetime. Pay the astronomical fee, join a few group assignments and bob's your uncle.

Having worked in the UK and Australia have to say Australians work a lot harder. I actually was signed up with an agency in London that would only employ Australians and Kiwis because employers would specifically ask for them and didn't want a Brit.

If you're finding it difficult getting a job or getting qualifications recognised, I would say the market is not desperate to employ you and standards are high which you're struggling to meet.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I was only using it as an example on the problem people have using their overseas qualifications in Oz. Strange how it is many people that haven't studied or know what is involved in post grad study, quite happily put down these studies. The reason why there are various forms of accreditation are because some courses you cannot fail on, and others you'll actually learn something from...but on your reasoning Macquarie Bank etc. and all of the Big consultancy firms that recruit post grads must be wasting their time. ;)


I'll take your word on that ;) ...are you Vash in disguise?? - no scrub that Vash generally avoids taking it to a personal level :p

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

You don't need to be a graduate to do an MBA. Like I said, pay the fees and that's enough. The only reason a lot of these major companies ask for it just means if you get the job they know you won't be slugging them for it down the road.

If Australians are so slack and you're so wonderful, why aren't employers snapping you up? Maybe because a lot of Aussies have worked in the UK and know how slack Brits can be.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

We find if you don't have the bit of paper you don't even get an interview here. The Missus has a degree in human psychology and animal psychology. She has years of good quality experience backed up with excellent references and a more dedicate hard working woman you would be hard to find. Here she applies for jobs and her degree is either the wrong type, or they want you to have a doctorate in it! She has an unbroken record of getting every job she has an interview for, yet here just getting the interview in her field without the doctorate is proving impossible. The experience seems to count for nowt.

So she decided to fall back on her teaching instead. We came here on her skill’s assessment in teaching, but can you work at the same level as she left? Can she fxxk. We have been waiting for a reap oval for months now, just to be able to work in the very skill we were accepted on to get here. The place is a joke.

They want the skills, let you in and then degrade you by either making you go and retrain to some school leaver level or only allow you to work as a mate or other assistant or hoppo. All I can say is thank fcck that we didn’t have to work to stay alive. I feel just so sorry for all you sparkies, plumbers etc, that they treat like a school leaver after you have paid them the privilege of being here. Where’s my suitcase!?

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I have to admit, the truth is somewhere in the middle people. We can all argue until we are blue in the face. The fact is, there is a lot of red tape in Australia and it pisses people off when they have to come into contact with it - I haven't seen it myself though - yet. I have not built a home and I don't have my own business and work in a flexible sector. I don't want to build a home(!)

I had to go on to a UK public website the other week and it was the first site I didn't understand - I couldn't find the relevant form and I was surprised at how confusing and how bad it was. It does not bode well for redtape in the UK at all to any visitor.

To me, there are some sectors that Australia does get organised in, and I've been impressed - I prefer them to the UK variant - the ATO, VicRoads. Others not so. I think that the UK has less red tape, but they're slower, or there's a bigger population who knows. Australia would have real problems if they had 3 times the population, this is why I think they actually get away with to an extent, in some areas. With growth change will have to come.

I work in IT, got a job in 6 weeks - not so quick then - with a bit of gumptiom and I am not a guru.
No issues with any of the places I worked apart from management individuals - same the world over. No quals proven, no nothing, but IT is a global industry.

Frankly there are not that many jobs so I think struggling people have genuinely not proved their worth or value - let alone qualifications. Remember, people have to like you, or feel you will fit in - to employ you. I would probably never compete in my specialisation if it was qual-based alone.

I have always wondered how Australians do so well in London if Australia is flawed with it's 'product' - people and materials - in so many ways. It is almost a litmus test.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Australia has a lot of bollocks but it is liveable.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Well said that man. :)

Both countries have their respective swings and roundabouts; both have their respective reams of red tape and bureaucratic nonsense. For every anecdote about an inefficient, stick-in-the-mud Australian company, you could find one for a UK company.

Telewest Broadband (where I used to work last year) has only just got around to consolidating its two entirely different and totally incompatible DOS-based database systems (ICOMS and Cablemaster) into one system (an updated ICOMS - which is still clunky and DOS-based) after years of having to train its operators in the use of both. (I speak from personal experience.) The cost of this inefficiency in £ terms is simply immeasurable.

Ashtead Plant (where I currently work) was established in 1947 and still uses pen-and-paper "day books" to keep track of its customers' orders. Confusingly, this is done in conjunction with a DOS-based database (marginally more sophisticated than Telewest's) which has not been updated in years.

The company has only just begun to discuss the possibility of moving towards a fully electronic system - mainly because the current method produces more paper than we can handle, takes too long to process, and remains hopelessly vulnerable to damage and loss.

Are Telwest and Ashtead Plant reflective of British enterprise overall? By no means. In the same way, a single Australian company (or handful of companies) are not reflective of Australian enterprise overall.

Both countries also have their success stories.

The UK has its all-conquering Tesco supermarket chain.

Down Under we have Australia Post, which is recognised as one of the most reliable and efficient postal services in the world, is so successful that it was able to reject tentative takeover offers from TNT and Bundespost in 2002, bought its largest competitor in 2003, runs profitably on its own turnover without government cash injections, froze the price of the standard stamp at 45 cents for ten years in a row and employs the very latest bespoke technology, custom-made to Aussie Post's specifications by British Aerospace, Lockheed-Martin, and Siemens. :cool:

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Yes, the postal system here is very efficient, but have you ever tried to post a letter with the wrong postage on (overpay) because those are the stamps you happen to have to hand? The people behind the counter won't let you! Oh no, that won't do, it has to be the correct amount.

Jane :)

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

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Hell thats a good feature :D People will really believe everything I post now, it must be correct :D