Australian Work Ethic
 

http://images.despair.com/products/d...astination.jpg

Is this what lines the corridors of Aussie companies??

http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

:p :D :p :D

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I sometimes wonder how the hell Australia became so wealthy.

My experience with Australian companies - superann, suppliers, Auspost, energy companies, Telstra - has been so dire that I just can't understand how they can be organised enough to actually make any money.

Regulated markets is surely one reason.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Just think how depressing it is for some of us who are struggling to even be employed by these fools :eek: :eek:

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Actually, in my experience you could just replace "Australian" with "British".

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Yeah, we used to have that one on our wall - right next to this one:

http://images.despair.com/products/d.../doitlater.jpg

:D

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

F**K you are totally at the right point....
I always scrach my head in anguish and great awe

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

No.

Most Aussies can't spell procraz..., procras..., procrasss...strewth...putting stuff off.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

When you see a thread with an oxymoronic title, you just *have* to take a look, doncha?

<bg>

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

What's a zit cream got to do with the title?

As for how they are so rich, they dig it all out of the ground and do bugger all with it and just sell it all to the Chinese. The Chinese who actually do know what the phrase "work ethic" means then process it into higher priced goods and sell it all on to the 'developed' nations. Then use all the billions in profits to actually bank roll America. China sure knows how to play the long game, no need to ever invade America they will effectively own it soon!

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Superannuation isn't regulated; energy isn't regulated; the airline industry isn't deregulated.

Etc., etc.

So which regulated markets did you have in mind? :)

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Wrong, as usual. :)

Our largest export partner is actually Japan, which takes more than double the exports we send to China.

Our smallest export partner is the UK - probably because she has no manufacturing industry and is therefore incapable of doing even "bugger all" with the exports we supply. :D

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I assume that you meant the airline industry IS regulated? Unless the recent complaints from Australian airports about the govt restricting the rights of international carriers to land in Aus (and thereby restricting tourism growth)didn't happen. (Or the preferential treatment that Qantas has on landing slots. Or the recent govt report stating that Qanats needed to be treated differently (that link is posted on this site somewhere) Or the purchasing of a Singapore low cost carrier (Valuair) by Jetstar and the subsequent removal of Valuair's services to Perth. Jetstar owned by Quantas, majority owned by - you guessed it - the government))

Energy - you think that you can just start supplying the WA (or Australian) energy grid do you? Get your own power station and chug away into the high voltage overheads?

Lets go on....licences for selling newspapers - you can't just open your own newsagents here in Australia you know. Nope, all tightly controlled.

Telstra - allowed to control use of its infrastructure, not brought to book about overcharging suppliers (because of upcoming sale of govt investment perhaps?).

There are enough licences necessary to operate businesses in Australia to ensure that many, many markets are essentially regulated. And those markets which aren't officially regulated often have huge financial and technological barriers to entry that they are essentially carve-ups. This, coupled with a weak ombudsman allows rip-offs and poor service - a la the banks.

Enough examples?

I'll credit you with the superannuation one.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Oz *has* to be by far the most over-regulated yet least *managed* country in the world.

For God's sake, where else would you be prohibited from installing a new tap in your own home? Or a ceiling fan?

Having said that I think I saw that the UK is going down the same road - probably courtesy of our friends the EU.

Part of the reason things are so expensive here and building is of such poor quality is that you are effectively at the mercy of tradesmen who have little incentive to improve - the government makes it obligatory to employ them regardless.

(Generalising of course, as usual <g>)

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Want to change a plug? No chance – bring in the electrician.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I've just had a phone call from a furniture shop. 4 months ago I ordered a small display table, and was told it would take 3 weeks. Its finally ready!

Things do get done here, just verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slowly. It took 7 months to get the final plumbing approval for our house. In his own words, the builder was "too lazy" to get it sorted.

Jane :)

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

We are still awaiting approval to put a sign up for our business. We were told when we applied in mid January that it would take 6 weeks. Sure enough we got approval 6 weeks later.

Can we now put a sign up?

NO - because we only have approval to put up a sign.

What we don't have is a licence to put up a sign. This takes a further 3 months to approve.

Needless to say it's now more than 3 months and have not heard a thing from the council.

I know teenagers with a faster work rate.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Wasn't this proved to a big myth the other day? Wheel in Amazulu.

A plug on a wire is not a 'fixed structure' (or something).

I wire all my own plugs.

Bad luck boys. ;)

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I hope it is a myth - let's say it is. I can hear Vash researching as I type!

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

We'll see then mate what he finds. There are alot of myths around; like a fisherman's tale, the story grows with the telling.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

It IS a myth!

What all this shows is, like everywhere, it pays dividends to research every detail before committing. There ARE some good companies, and some good employees despite the best efforts of the governments to legislate and regulate everyone out of business.

We have today been visiting the MD of a large company from which we will be ordering a substantial amount of building items: he has had enough of the Australian "work" ethic and has relocated to China. It's no longer viable to make things here, at least quality things.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

It's a wonder he has any blue ink left.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

It all starts at the top I'm afraid. I recently had a conversation with a Australian friend who is an FD of a big multinational (Australian subsidiary). A nicer guy you wouldn’t meet but as for work ethic….He told me he recently had to let his Pom PA go, when I asked why he said it was she thought the whole finance department could be streamlined with more modern working practices and started to implement a few. He didn’t like this at all and in his own words, “It’s the way we’ve been doing it for 20 years, I know it’s not the best way but it works and so what if it’s a bit inefficient”. I know it’s only one first hand experience but combined with another mate who is a Pom trouble shooter who goes into the big multinationals at the Oz end to try and find out what is going wrong at this end and has to solve them, He also thinks it’s all down to a very poor national work ethic.

Combine it all with my business dealings here now and from my previous life then I’m afraid it just has to be true.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Yes, Ark: it wouldn't be so bad if they weren't so upbeat about Australia all the time, he says. Things are often as disorganised as they are in most African states - but at least the Africans recognise it! Banging on about how much better Australia and Australian products are than everywhere else actually doesn't make them such....

It's called denial I believe in the world of shrinks!

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Given the re-emergence of the nuclear debate it might be good idea to keep your fingers crossed that Australian companies are not given the contracts to build the power stations.

"No, the reactor should have a one brick wall. We meant to build it like that and we meant to complete it 150 years after deadline. It's how we do things. You're just a whinger. If you don't like our one-brick-reactor-walls, bugger off back to Pommieland."

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I won't.

Or is the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993 that regulates the operation of super funds something else?

I don't think so. So, that makes it a full house :)

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

They even regulate pulling coffee's! I was thinking of doing the Tafe coffee course just to see exactly what it's all about.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

That act was superceded in 2005............... :beer: mm

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

By deregulation or re-regulation?

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

Firstly, you've completely misinterepreted my use of the word "regulated." By "regulated", I don't mean "subject to regulations", but "privatised" - ie. run by the government. (The privatisation of Australia's domestic airlines was known as "deregulation" at the time.)

And if you think that all industries should be free to practice in any way that they please, all I can say is that I don't want to live in whatever universe you're currently inhabiting.

Re. "govt restricting the rights of international carriers to land in Aus" - so what? Is Australia the only nation which does this? I hardly think so.

In fact...
Source.

Re. "preferential treatment that Qantas has on landing slots" - again, so what? And does this occur at all Australian airports? I doubt it! (Incidentally, BA enjoys the unique privilege of 224 landing slots at Heathrow, granting it unrivalled preferential status.)

Re. "recent govt report stating that Qantas needed to be 'treated differently'" - what's all that about? Details, please.

Re. "the subsequent removal of Valuair's services to Perth":
Source.

What's that got to do with the government, pray tell? Oh, wait - I've just realised! It's because for some strange reason, you think that Qantas is "majority owned by the government." Exactly why you think this, I am at a loss to say. Perhaps you're still living in 1994, when this was actually true. :rolleyes:

BTW, Jetstar itself still flies between Perth and Melbourne.

Re. "Jetstar owned by Quantas, majority owned by - you guessed it - the government" - incredibly, you're claiming that Qantas is majority owned by the government?

The most appropriate response to this absurd accusation is "ROTFL!" :D :D

Yes, Jetstar is majority owned by Qantas, but Qantas is majority owned by foreign companies (46% at last count) of which the lion's share was previously owned by British Airways.

Contrary to popular (ignorant) opinion, Qantas has not been owned by the government in any way, shape or form since it was privatised by Paul Keating in 1995. I really wish that poeple like you would get their facts straight before sticking their feet in their mouths.

Or perhaps not, since it's so immensely entertaining. ;)

Ironically, Qantas' biggest foreign rivals are themselves part-owned by their home governments, and are kept afloat by massive amounts of government money. The UK encourages this practice by exempting airlines from fuel tax; the massive shortfall is made up by (yes, you guessed it) the long-suffering British taxpayer, known for his willingness to chip in a few bob whenever the government has cocked up its accounting (again) or simply doesn't want to pay for its own policies.

Re. energy - yes, there are laws regarding the establishment of energy-providing companies, just as you will find everywhere else in the Western world (including the UK.) Is this a problem?

Re. newspapers - same as above. Is this a problem too? (Incidentally, the British newspaper industry is dominated by three major players which share around 79% of the market. Food for thought.)

Re. Telstra - see BT. Can't believe you even threw that one in, but you were clearly desperate for "examples" so perhaps it's not so surprising.

"Enough examples"? No, because I was talking about privatisation, not government regulation of industries. And as we have seen, the situation in the UK is virtually identical (and in some cases worse) so where's the beef?

Don't even get me started again on your mistake about Qantas being "majority government owned"; that's just too hilarious for words.

Or would you rather I started a thread on the laughable mess of red tape which divides British bathrooms into four different zones and specifies precisely what may and may not be installed in each one?

An excerpt follows, because I simply can't resist the temptation:

• Zone 0 is the smallest rectangular volume that contains the bathtub, shower basin, etc.
  
  
• Zone 1 is the area above Zone 0, up to a height of 2.25 m above the floor.
  
  
• Zone 2 is the area above Zone 1 up to a height of 3 m, as well as the area that is horizontally within 0.6 m from Zone 1.
  
  
• Zone 3 is the area above Zone 2 up to a height of 3 m, as well as the area that is horizontally within 2.4 m from Zone 2.
  
  Within Zone 0, only SELV devices are permitted. Any AC transformer supplying such a device must be located outside Zones 0–2. The minimum required ingress protection rating in Zone 0 is IPX7 and IPX4 in Zone 1 and 2. If water jets are likely to occur, at least IPX5 is required in Zone 1–3. Otherwise, in Zone 3 and beyond, an ingress protection rating of IP20 is the minimum required. Equipment in Zone 1–3 must be protected by a 30 mA residual-current circuit breaker (except for shower pumps and shower heaters, where the use of an RCD is so far only recommended).

Did you get all of that, boys? Tucked it away for future reference, eh? Because you'll need to know it all when you eventually go back home... that and the other 52 pages of bathroom regulations... :D

BTW, according to Wikipedia, "The 2001 edition of the Wiring Regulations is more flexible now." If this is true, I shudder to think of the prehistoric conditions which must have prevailed in British bathrooms during the 20th Century.

Heck, in many cases, they still do - just look at all those ridiculous cord-pull switches.

It's like stepping into the Dark Ages. :rolleyes:

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

That's barista training, you numpty - not "regulation." Anyone can pull a coffee; they don't need special training for it. But if they want to be officially recognised in the industry as a barista, that's another thing entirely.

And if you don't know what a barista is, or why he/she requires training, I can only assume you believe that food at restaurants is cooked by some random bloke or bird who's just wandered in off the street. :rolleyes:

The hypocrisy, ignorance and bigotry on this thread is just pathetic.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I think you need a holiday.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

This is just bullying bullsh*t Vash and you know it.

Stop trying to change accepted definitions to suit your own defence of the indefensible.

Deregulation - process by which governments remove restrictions on business in order to (in theory) encourage the efficient operation of markets.

Therefore regulation - imposing restrictions on business.

Part of free market economics but most definitely not the same as privatisation - never has been never will be.

You can't just say "What I meant was...." just to enable you to justify the regulation which goes on in Australia.

And lets not forget that I introduced regulation into this debate - if you don't understand the term then spend more time reading instead of spending hours trying to put down arguments.

US-UK flights are not the same as resticting entry to the whole country. As with all things you - especially you Vash - will always find an exception to general circumstances.

JETSTAR/VALUAIR - what a vacuous defence. My point still stands - acquisition of Valuair by Qantas and canceling of Perth services to Singapore - hence average prices to Singapore increase. You've just supported the argument.

Energy etc - there you again - conveniently forgetting the fact that you began stating that the energy industry was deregulated. IT IS NOT - apologies Vash if you don't understand deregulation but the industries I mentioned are NOT DEREGULATED. Hence there are restrictions on business to prevent efficient operation of markets. And in the UK - yes you can change suppliers of electricity and gas whenever you want - you can't do that in Australia. Major difference. Australia energy supply regulated - UK deregulated.

What the hell has the height of a wall in a British bathroom got to do with the deregulation of markets - or is this an example of your misunderstanding again?

I'll admit the error on government ownership of Qantas. Perhaps a better point is that the government prevents more than 49.9% of foreign ownership of Qantas.

In summary Vash you've obviously spent some time wondering how you could possibly attack what was originally posted.

By redefining words, and adding red herrings (e.g. the newspaper distribution figure of 79% is actually about wholesale distribution - nothing to do with retail which is what I was talking about - I've not even begun to look at wholsale carve-ups in Australia) you have yet again blustered your way through a long, defence of something which is just uindefensible.

So your post:

Superannuation isn't regulated; energy isn't regulated; the airline industry isn't deregulated.

Etc., etc.

So which regulated markets did you have in mind?


Well, I had in mind the energy industry because it is regulated. The airline industry - because it is regulated. And everything else that I added.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

The financial services industry has been regulated for ages in both the UK and Australia. It's considered a necessary thing - I believe.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I think everyone is actually making the same rather general point - which is that much *interference* (to avoid squabbling over definitions) is counterproductive.

Things which are actually *requirements* in one country are *prohibited* on safety grounds in another: now, where on earth is the logic there?

Example - in our new home in the States ten years ago we were *made* to have a power point close to the kitchen sink. It was "code". In another country this would be a definite no-no. We had to have bathroom sockets - same argument.

The world is getting more and more "regulated" by meddling "authorities", from supranational entities (and the EU comes unbidden to mind <g>), through governments, state governments, shire authorities, local councils and so on down to the baker's dog.

Each throws in their own pet obsessions - and often one will countermand another even in the same country.

It's bl**dy madness!

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

As much as I enjoy ignoring you I can't let this one go. My 1st job ever was making coffees so I suppose I could have been called a barista! So now who's the numpty. Try getting a job here pulling coffees without the training at the Tafe and then tell me that’s not regulation. Just because it might not be written in law, the fact you can't get a job making a coffee without it proves just what nonsense you speak. I was self taught and all I needed was pointing in the direction of the 3 phase switch that turned the coffee rig on. It didn't take long to learn how to make all the different drinks well.

The reason I use the coffee Tafe course as an example is that it just so much sums up this ridiculous country. I can guarantee that if you had a job as a barista for a few years but god forbid without the piece of paper from the tafe to say you were qualified, you would find it extremely hard to get another job as one regardless of how much experience you had previously.

Ask any skilled pom already here just how much their skills and previous experience was actually worth when they tried to get a job here. Name me another country that makes a skilled multi-disciplined sparky with 10 years experience have to go on another course designed for a school leaver just to be able to continue practicing when they get here? And then only allowed to work in a much more restricted range of what he’s allowed to do without going on more courses!

As always vash you sit in your sheltered environment with your romantic memories of Australia to comfort you with no real idea what you need to go through to get a decent job out here and for some unknown reason actually believe your own nonsense that somehow the UK is more of a nanny state than Australia.

This is without a shadow of a doubt in my mind the most nanny state I’ve ever been to, Far worse because your not allowed to be an adult and the state treats you more like a child than an adult. FFS there was even an advert on telly today reminding parents to give their children breakfast, and don’t leave your kids in a car as there have been 22 deaths and 168 injuries from kids left to cook in locked cars this year so far.

Ok don’t bother replying as vent over and I’m putting you back on ignore, It’s bad enough listening to thick Ozzies on MAX FM every day but to get one on here too is just more than my buffers can take…

Nearly forgot my sources:- Aussie owner of a ice cream parlour & Aussie owner of a coffee shop

shite forgot to underline them sorry. Try again Aussie owner of a ice cream parlour & Aussie owner of a coffee shop


To every one else, sorry for the incoherence of my argument as it took me so long to colour everything in that I forgot what I was on about and couldn’t re-read it after it was coloured in as the text was so full of tags it gave me a headache.

Nearly forgot also, does anyone want to buy a caravan? Advert

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I know you like sources Vash – so here are some for reference – couldn’t post them earlier because I had breakfast to organise…

Source

Source

Source

Source

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/MSB11/stupid.gif

I'm currently trying to find a job here...and one company has asked me to provide proof that my MBA is valid to Australian Standards. Fantastic, there is no Australian standard that exists!.. my MBA school is one of a few that is accredited with all 3 major orgs globally and was ranked in the top 20 by the EIU. AFAIK the top Aussie school just hit the 70's and very few, if any, are accredited by any of the UK/EU/US organisations.

But, no I have to go some g'ment agency and wait 6 weeks for a piece of paper that everyone I have already spoken agrees will only tell me what is blindingly obvious to anyone with a bit of common sense, or who could be ar$ed making a decision themselves.

But as with others who have gone through the long slog of looking for work here, some of the so-called quality companies have been surprisingly poor when you actually get 'up-close' to them. I would go as far as saying that after a good interview with Qantas I was seriously wondering if this was a company I would want to work for - and that's coming from someone who needs to get to work :D

As to the good hard working Aussies - I should have seen the warning signs when we first arrived chasing up the shippers, I don't think one call was returned, and then when I asked why I was constantly chasing them up, them claimed to be very busy...but not busy to start work before 9 or to hang around after 5 to clear some paperwork out of the way :confused: :confused: .

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

For a start, everyone knows MBAs mean zilch. Seen enough dunderheads waving them around to last a lifetime. Pay the astronomical fee, join a few group assignments and bob's your uncle.

Having worked in the UK and Australia have to say Australians work a lot harder. I actually was signed up with an agency in London that would only employ Australians and Kiwis because employers would specifically ask for them and didn't want a Brit.

If you're finding it difficult getting a job or getting qualifications recognised, I would say the market is not desperate to employ you and standards are high which you're struggling to meet.

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

I was only using it as an example on the problem people have using their overseas qualifications in Oz. Strange how it is many people that haven't studied or know what is involved in post grad study, quite happily put down these studies. The reason why there are various forms of accreditation are because some courses you cannot fail on, and others you'll actually learn something from...but on your reasoning Macquarie Bank etc. and all of the Big consultancy firms that recruit post grads must be wasting their time. ;)


I'll take your word on that ;) ...are you Vash in disguise?? - no scrub that Vash generally avoids taking it to a personal level :p

Re: Australian Work Ethic
 

You don't need to be a graduate to do an MBA. Like I said, pay the fees and that's enough. The only reason a lot of these major companies ask for it just means if you get the job they know you won't be slugging them for it down the road.

If Australians are so slack and you're so wonderful, why aren't employers snapping you up? Maybe because a lot of Aussies have worked in the UK and know how slack Brits can be.