An apology to asylum seekers
#436
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Re: An apology to asylum seekers
How strange, I began to compose a similar post earlier, and then abandoned it because I thought what's the point, most people can see the truth just the same as I can - some are just hard-wired to want to flood the western world with asylum seekers and economic migrants pretending to be asylum seekers regardless of the consequences.
Its like the moron Bill Shorten. All he does is attack the Libs with criticisms. He comes up with zero ideas of his own.
If this country wants a viable alternative, there you have it my friends. Bill Shorten and Christine Milne. God help Australia.
#437
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Posts: 22,348
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Wol and yourself will never get an answer because the lefty labour pwople on this thread have no interest in working through a solution. All they are interested in is attacking the Liberal government.
Its like the moron Bill Shorten. All he does is attack the Libs with criticisms. He comes up with zero ideas of his own.
If this country wants a viable alternative, there you have it my friends. Bill Shorten and Christine Milne. God help Australia.
Its like the moron Bill Shorten. All he does is attack the Libs with criticisms. He comes up with zero ideas of his own.
If this country wants a viable alternative, there you have it my friends. Bill Shorten and Christine Milne. God help Australia.
#438
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Posts: 1,230
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
I keep coming back to the question I asked IIRC at the end of April, and all I get is refusal to give a straight answer (which is, to be honest, just what I was expecting.)
Let me put it in another way, in the form of sequential questions:
(1) Do you think any country (including Australia) has the capacity, let alone the obligation, to accept an unlimited number of asylum claimants? (Y/N) If Yes, go to the end.
(1) Do you think any country (including Australia) has the capacity, let alone the obligation, to accept an unlimited number of asylum claimants? (Y/N) If Yes, go to the end.
(2) If the answer to 1 is No, then what do you think is a reasonable number to accept? (20,000? 00,000? 1m?, 10m? - or choose another number)
They give out 9,000 working holiday visa a year just so some kids can come out here on the piss. Those would be better off going to genuine asylum seekers for a start. Plus I know people who have managed to get visas here as a result of being a bloody recruitment consultant. Even the most right wing of you must admit asylum seekers are more worthy than them.
(3) Grabbing just a few countries out of thin air which might reasonably be said to have a human rights problem, with their approximate populations:
Nigeria 174m
Libya 6m
Egypt 82m
Syria 22m
Iraq 34m
Iran 77m
Pakistan 183m
Afghanistan 31m
Not even counting such places as China, Burma, Sudan etc, the total of those I've mentioned is 609m.
Say 10% of those claim asylum in other countries, that's 60 million people.
(4) If your answer to 2 is fewer than that 60m (which in any case is three times Australia's present population), and given the reasonable assumption that a very large proportion of those involved would prefer to settle in a first world country which allows them easy entry, just what do you think the government should do when your limit is reached? Because it *would* be reached, at some point. And the more that had already been allowed in, the larger the smuggling industry would have become.
Nigeria 174m
Libya 6m
Egypt 82m
Syria 22m
Iraq 34m
Iran 77m
Pakistan 183m
Afghanistan 31m
Not even counting such places as China, Burma, Sudan etc, the total of those I've mentioned is 609m.
Say 10% of those claim asylum in other countries, that's 60 million people.
(4) If your answer to 2 is fewer than that 60m (which in any case is three times Australia's present population), and given the reasonable assumption that a very large proportion of those involved would prefer to settle in a first world country which allows them easy entry, just what do you think the government should do when your limit is reached? Because it *would* be reached, at some point. And the more that had already been allowed in, the larger the smuggling industry would have become.
I'm not so convinced the limits would be reached. Rather than pluck fear mongering figures out of the air - I will refer you to some facts as to how many people actually arrive:
Refugee Council of Australia
Note how many people actually have their claim turned down and are thus returned. Also note how significantly more people who arrive by boat have a valid claim over those who arrive by air.
Given the historical trends, even allowing for the recent spike, the numbers really are not that significant. Its a big old place we got here.
So, once again: do you have any answer to the original, three month old, question? Because the situation now is actually exactly the same as what I have stated above - only the numbers are different.
I don't object to there being a limit of course, there has to be one. There shouldn't be a open arms to all and sundry. But there are people there who need help and we can give it. The most desperate come by boat, I'm sure they don't do that by choice.
This has nothing to do with racism, compassion, hatred etc etc: it's purely a matter of what response any government can have to what is rapidly becoming a rock/hard place dilemma.
#439
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
I'll give it a go then
Not unlimited, no. I think they have an obligation to take as many as they can
Pff, no idea. As many valid claims as can be accommodated. Dont have the research. Lets call it 30k a year.
They give out 9,000 working holiday visa a year just so some kids can come out here on the piss. Those would be better off going to genuine asylum seekers for a start. Plus I know people who have managed to get visas here as a result of being a bloody recruitment consultant. Even the most right wing of you must admit asylum seekers are more worthy than them.
If you genuinely think 60 million people are about to turn up on a boat then you are quite obviously bonkers.
I'm not so convinced the limits would be reached. Rather than pluck fear mongering figures out of the air - I will refer you to some facts as to how many people actually arrive:
Refugee Council of Australia
Note how many people actually have their claim turned down and are thus returned. Also note how significantly more people who arrive by boat have a valid claim over those who arrive by air.
Given the historical trends, even allowing for the recent spike, the numbers really are not that significant. Its a big old place we got here.
There is obviously no easy answer. What is clear is that the current policy is not only deeply inhumane but also costing a ludicrous amount of money and is probably untenable long term so alternatives need to be found.
I don't object to there being a limit of course, there has to be one. There shouldn't be a open arms to all and sundry. But there are people there who need help and we can give it. The most desperate come by boat, I'm sure they don't do that by choice.
Maybe not on your part but don't get it twisted it certainly DOES have a lot to do with "racism, compassion, hatred, etc". and that's exactly what the Liberals play on.
Not unlimited, no. I think they have an obligation to take as many as they can
Pff, no idea. As many valid claims as can be accommodated. Dont have the research. Lets call it 30k a year.
They give out 9,000 working holiday visa a year just so some kids can come out here on the piss. Those would be better off going to genuine asylum seekers for a start. Plus I know people who have managed to get visas here as a result of being a bloody recruitment consultant. Even the most right wing of you must admit asylum seekers are more worthy than them.
If you genuinely think 60 million people are about to turn up on a boat then you are quite obviously bonkers.
I'm not so convinced the limits would be reached. Rather than pluck fear mongering figures out of the air - I will refer you to some facts as to how many people actually arrive:
Refugee Council of Australia
Note how many people actually have their claim turned down and are thus returned. Also note how significantly more people who arrive by boat have a valid claim over those who arrive by air.
Given the historical trends, even allowing for the recent spike, the numbers really are not that significant. Its a big old place we got here.
There is obviously no easy answer. What is clear is that the current policy is not only deeply inhumane but also costing a ludicrous amount of money and is probably untenable long term so alternatives need to be found.
I don't object to there being a limit of course, there has to be one. There shouldn't be a open arms to all and sundry. But there are people there who need help and we can give it. The most desperate come by boat, I'm sure they don't do that by choice.
Maybe not on your part but don't get it twisted it certainly DOES have a lot to do with "racism, compassion, hatred, etc". and that's exactly what the Liberals play on.
A question for Wol, can we and should we do more?
#440
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Fair play Joe. But I think there is signs of racism on this thread from some of those in favour of the current policy. It's a bit ironic to see it here on britishexpats.com considering how easy it was for us to get here.
A question for Wol, can we and should we do more?
A question for Wol, can we and should we do more?
#441
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Fair play Joe. But I think there is signs of racism on this thread from some of those in favour of the current policy. It's a bit ironic to see it here on britishexpats.com considering how easy it was for us to get here.
A question for Wol, can we and should we do more?
A question for Wol, can we and should we do more?
#442
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Location: Perth
Posts: 6,781
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
It is a point a morally bankrupt uses to justify likely illegal actions. A refugee does not have to be under privileged. Indeed more likely to be economic enhancers if poor.
#443
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Posts: 6,781
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Me: >>You really don't understand what I'm getting at, do you?<<
knockoff nige >>Do you?<<
I keep coming back to the question I asked IIRC at the end of April, and all I get is refusal to give a straight answer (which is, to be honest, just what I was expecting.)
Let me put it in another way, in the form of sequential questions:
(1) Do you think any country (including Australia) has the capacity, let alone the obligation, to accept an unlimited number of asylum claimants? (Y/N) If Yes, go to the end.
(2) If the answer to 1 is No, then what do you think is a reasonable number to accept? (20,000? 00,000? 1m?, 10m? - or choose another number)
(3) Grabbing just a few countries out of thin air which might reasonably be said to have a human rights problem, with their approximate populations:
Nigeria 174m
Libya 6m
Egypt 82m
Syria 22m
Iraq 34m
Iran 77m
Pakistan 183m
Afghanistan 31m
Not even counting such places as China, Burma, Sudan etc, the total of those I've mentioned is 609m.
Say 10% of those claim asylum in other countries, that's 60 million people.
(4) If your answer to 2 is fewer than that 60m (which in any case is three times Australia's present population), and given the reasonable assumption that a very large proportion of those involved would prefer to settle in a first world country which allows them easy entry, just what do you think the government should do when your limit is reached? Because it *would* be reached, at some point. And the more that had already been allowed in, the larger the smuggling industry would have become.
So, once again: do you have any answer to the original, three month old, question? Because the situation now is actually exactly the same as what I have stated above - only the numbers are different.
This has nothing to do with racism, compassion, hatred etc etc: it's purely a matter of what response any government can have to what is rapidly becoming a rock/hard place dilemma.
knockoff nige >>Do you?<<
I keep coming back to the question I asked IIRC at the end of April, and all I get is refusal to give a straight answer (which is, to be honest, just what I was expecting.)
Let me put it in another way, in the form of sequential questions:
(1) Do you think any country (including Australia) has the capacity, let alone the obligation, to accept an unlimited number of asylum claimants? (Y/N) If Yes, go to the end.
(2) If the answer to 1 is No, then what do you think is a reasonable number to accept? (20,000? 00,000? 1m?, 10m? - or choose another number)
(3) Grabbing just a few countries out of thin air which might reasonably be said to have a human rights problem, with their approximate populations:
Nigeria 174m
Libya 6m
Egypt 82m
Syria 22m
Iraq 34m
Iran 77m
Pakistan 183m
Afghanistan 31m
Not even counting such places as China, Burma, Sudan etc, the total of those I've mentioned is 609m.
Say 10% of those claim asylum in other countries, that's 60 million people.
(4) If your answer to 2 is fewer than that 60m (which in any case is three times Australia's present population), and given the reasonable assumption that a very large proportion of those involved would prefer to settle in a first world country which allows them easy entry, just what do you think the government should do when your limit is reached? Because it *would* be reached, at some point. And the more that had already been allowed in, the larger the smuggling industry would have become.
So, once again: do you have any answer to the original, three month old, question? Because the situation now is actually exactly the same as what I have stated above - only the numbers are different.
This has nothing to do with racism, compassion, hatred etc etc: it's purely a matter of what response any government can have to what is rapidly becoming a rock/hard place dilemma.
#444
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Re: An apology to asylum seekers
No it's not. Not a fixed rate. Just because through out history some have paid to exit unsafe situations it doesn't make them any less entitled to be in need of asylum.
It is a point a morally bankrupt uses to justify likely illegal actions. A refugee does not have to be under privileged. Indeed more likely to be economic enhancers if poor.
It is a point a morally bankrupt uses to justify likely illegal actions. A refugee does not have to be under privileged. Indeed more likely to be economic enhancers if poor.
#445
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Location: Perth
Posts: 6,781
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
But I expect he reignites memories of the failed old regime you fled from. Come to think of it he would have fitted in well in the Nationalist Party. A right wing party of losers that led to the decline of what could have been a great nation.
#446
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Location: Budapest, Melbourne, Yarrawonga & Antalya
Posts: 353
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
There is a very simple solution, if you don't like Australia 'go back to where you came from'.......
If Australia applied the implied restrictions demanded, some of our greatest Australians would never have been admitted to Australia, e.g. Sir John Monash. Anyone recognise him and understand why he is important?
Further, you cam emigrate onto the EU where there are formally 2.2. million 'UK economic and other refugees' living in the EU, while this figure could be increased by 50% to include those doing it dodgy i.e. not registered, not paying taxes or social security etc..
If Australia applied the implied restrictions demanded, some of our greatest Australians would never have been admitted to Australia, e.g. Sir John Monash. Anyone recognise him and understand why he is important?
Further, you cam emigrate onto the EU where there are formally 2.2. million 'UK economic and other refugees' living in the EU, while this figure could be increased by 50% to include those doing it dodgy i.e. not registered, not paying taxes or social security etc..
#447
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Location: Perth
Posts: 6,781
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
And? The white tribe remain pretty much in tact there. Cape Town had a white mayor and was politically entrenched in the West Cape when I was there not long back. Hardly in need of refuge.
#448
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Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,781
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
There is a very simple solution, if you don't like Australia 'go back to where you came from'.......
If Australia applied the implied restrictions demanded, some of our greatest Australians would never have been admitted to Australia, e.g. Sir John Monash. Anyone recognise him and understand why he is important?
Further, you cam emigrate onto the EU where there are formally 2.2. million 'UK economic and other refugees' living in the EU, while this figure could be increased by 50% to include those doing it dodgy i.e. not registered, not paying taxes or social security etc..
If Australia applied the implied restrictions demanded, some of our greatest Australians would never have been admitted to Australia, e.g. Sir John Monash. Anyone recognise him and understand why he is important?
Further, you cam emigrate onto the EU where there are formally 2.2. million 'UK economic and other refugees' living in the EU, while this figure could be increased by 50% to include those doing it dodgy i.e. not registered, not paying taxes or social security etc..
#449
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Re: An apology to asylum seekers
I'm sure you'll agree, application for asylum should not be judged on colour.
#450
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Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Ah .... so it comes down to the Liberal party again. Remember we don't have a viable alternative.