scrubbedexpat099

Because there is an alternative.

Giantaxe

There's an alternative now.

Pulaski

Er, ..... because larger fines are usually more of a deterrent, assuming that the decision maker is rational. (What am I missing here? )

Giantaxe

You already provide health insurance to your employees even though there's no fine if you don't. Let's say the insurance costs you $5k per employee per year. If the fine changes to $2k, from a financial standpoint why are you going to drop insurance? It makes no financial difference to you to provide insurance. In fact, the bigger the fine, the more financial incentive there is to provide insurance. For example, if the fine were $6k, it would make financial sense to provide insurance that cost $5k etc.

scrubbedexpat099

$5K sounds low.

I worked for a big city company and I see my old colleagues/friends when I go back.

So the Company Cars disappeared years ago, lot of the other major benefits went for new employees. There used to be an accelerated scheme for accumulation a full final salary pension, that went, now on my last visit the final salary schemes have been closed and you can only get limited contributions to money purchase.

From what I can see here Medical Insurance is going the same sort of way, firstly what is covered is being restricted, employee contributions increased more jobs that are available do not come with any benefits. I know some years ago 'cafeteria' plans were becoming more popular, you have a percentage of your salary to buy benefits you want. Makes sense from an employer point of view, but when you have ever increasing costs and fairly fixed salaries more and more can only come out of the employee pot.

bobjopate

well i agree with post #7 mwdake, it was like a breath of fresh air, i was on the same level as everybody else,no one knew me and it was up to me take make a go of it,amd as i sat in nottingham working for the british telecom i also wonderd ,what if i don,t go and try it. so myself and wife and 7yr old son got on the plane,with visa, and landed in texas, what great people they are,from the moment we got to houston the texans wanted to help,and i have found that true ever since no matter where i have lived ,now in tampa fl the us is not for everybody,thankyou but i find the vast majority of americans are good people ,the goverment is no better or worse than any place else i go back to the uk every year to visit my dad who is 89yrs old and always look foreward to getting back to fl i will never have better freinds than i have from my school years in england americans are very transit and tend noy to settle ,but there heart is in the right place, i,m sorry if i ramble but this is not england but its my home now ,after 30yrs we became americans ,it was the right thing to do the world is changing and no where is the same .if you are checking my spelling and find it not quite right thats the great thing about the us no one cares.

Bink

But a $2k fine nowhere near covers the cost of most policy's. It depends on the coverage and the employee but I can tell you that for my company, the cost to the company ranges from about $5k for a single person (no spouse/children) to closer to about $13k for a family (with the employee making contributions of about $5k on top of that).

scrubbedexpat099

13k plus 5k equals the annual minimum wage in most States.

Giantaxe

Well, that's my point. For an employer already providing health benefits, the threat of a 2k fine is not going to stop them providing those benefits as has been claimed by at least one person on this thread.

Now, I certainly accept the argument that it's unlikely to encourage anyone to provide benefits who currently isn't doing so. However, businesses under 50 employees actually receive a subsidy if they provide insurance, so for them the equation is a little different.

scrubbedexpat099

It is a poll tax on jobs, remind's me of Maggies property tax.

Giantaxe

Given it only applies to companies with over 50 employees and who don't provide health insurance, it's difficult to classify it as a "poll tax". About 70% of employers provide insurance; I'm not sure what percentage of those that don't have under 50 employees.

Pulaski

Ooops, you were right ...... I had my head on upside down yesterday.

scrubbedexpat099

I was looking at the provision of health insurance overall being a poll tax. You pay the premium or the fine or outsource.

Giantaxe

You could make the same argument about employers' social security. Maybe, just maybe, companies should have some kind of responsibility to the well-being of society? Now, I fully understand the objections to the kind of "cliff" beyond which the 2k fine comes into place. Far better to fund insurance out of general taxation, so that the larger burden falls on those who can most afford it. But of course, this country would akin that to socialism and therefore it was a non-starter.

scrubbedexpat099

SS is at least relsted to your job and is always a cost directly or indirectly to the employee.

I guess theycould fund the military on this basis. Equally illogical.