snowbunny

actually, there might be hope yet....

FDR recognised the threat to the world that the Germans posed and corresponded frequently with Churchill. He asked Congress to pass a few initiatives, such as the Lend-Lease bill, to aid Britain's war effort. The US Navy began to escort trans-Atlantic convoys (of merchant ships) as far as Iceland before handing them off to the British Navy. All of these things helped with the war effort and kept the Germans from completely strangling the supply routes to the UK. Only Lend-Lease had to pass Congress, and it was a deal to trade ships for leases for military bases -- something that has happened many times before.

On the other hand, the reason he had to do all of this via executive order is that the Americans of the day didn't give a damn about what was happening in Europe. They'd helped out at the end of WWI and didn't want to get involved in another war, no matter how justified. They were more concerned about getting the US economy back on track after the Recession and they did not want to look outside the US borders. Sounds kinda like today, huh?

Until Pearl Harbor. Just as Germany had decided it needed more "living space," Japan had made the same decision and wanted to take over the entire Pacific region. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor *before* making a declaration of war; in fact, the day before the war there were still diplomatic negotiations underway. This act of cowardice is what finally brought Americans kicking and screaming into the war.

If we had a governmental leader with wisdom, he could have used 9/11 as a sort of Pearl Harbour to wake up America and address the fact that there are many serious problems outside our own border. Instead our current leader has decided to use it to promote his own political and financial agenda. Instead of asking "what could America do to help the world," he's gone with "what could America do to control the world."

Maybe the US ex-marine should read up on the Battle of Britain. The UK singlehandedly held off all of occupied Europe until D-Day. That is a fact.

Manc

true
but not entirely alone we didn't

along with the Free-french, Poles, Dutch, Belgians etc etc

and lets be honest. with all respect, if any single nation needs applauding for winning the war. Look no further than the Reds.
Stalin lost 20 million and still reached Berlin before Monty or Eisenhower.

anotherlimey

I think many people forget that. If war is a series of mistakes then Hitler made the biggest mistake by invading Soviet Russia.

cupranod

And to think Burberry used to be such an exclusive brand.........a bit downmarket now!!

snowbunny

Yes, but much of the Resistance had fled to the UK, including Charles de Gaulle. There were resistance fighters in the countries you mention who gave their lifes, but there were also traitor governments such as Quisling in Norway and Vichy in France.

The only country who did not have their leaders replaced, or their land invaded, was the UK.

Stalin was *allowed* to reach Berlin before Monty or Eisenhower; Eisenhower's troops got within reach first, but the decision was made to let the Russians take Berlin because the Russians had lost so many people. Had that decision not been made, the Eastern Bloc of communism might never have formed. The American troops didn't want to halt so close to victory, but they obeyed the Allied Commander's decision.

Should the OP wish, I have a huge list of books written by Americans and Europeans about WWII in the European theatre, from the "annexation" of Czechoslovakia in 1936 through the beginning of the Cold War and the Berlin air-drops.

cupranod

I was pretty p*ssed off that Blair didn't go to Moscow recently with the other political leaders,the Russian sacrifice was huge and significant.We sent slim boy Prescott,I think he was in row Z.............

Ray

Exceptionally good responses Amy ... my hat is off to you ....

snowbunny

Yes, the Russian people (or more correctly, the countries that made up the former USSR) made tremendous sacrifices in ferociously defending their borders. Hitler did not want a war on two fronts (east and west) and was pretty pissed off when Mussolini decided to invade Greece and Japan decided to bomb Pearl Harbor. He was able to get the Italians out of Albania, where they'd gotten stuck, but he was not able to stop the US from retaliating.

Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back; they'd signed a mutual non-aggression treaty. But Hitler was running out of ..... oil! amongst other things, and he figured if he was going to try for the Baltic oilfields, he might as well try for the whole thing. He didn't study his geography, though: the front with Russia got longer and longer as he progressed further east (it stretched further north to south) and he stretched himself too thin. He never really got the oilfields, and the Allies were bombing the hell out of the synthetic oil and petrol plants in Germany. Ironic, isn't it, that a lot of that war was driven by the need for oil.

SBG&DHY

Still new troops arrive I see. And all in response to this one, lonely Marine. Amazing. Keep it coming. I'm enjoying this.

Oh, and it's not Ex-Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine. Never Ex. Just FYI. But I'm sure someone will want to shit on that too.


And additionaly, I might add, I'm not a big fan of the way things are going currently in the States, Iraq, North Korea, Social Security, Health Care, Child Care, Education. All of it is a big mess, and individually, it's a mess.

You're right, the founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves. This country is getting away from it's roots. One of the problems I see, and this is just my opinion, is that less American's get involved in the whole voting process, and really don't try to sort out who's who and who stands for what. My opinion-The fact that 2 people who previously didn't have a career in Politics got voted in is b/c people are sick of the lies, and bullsh*t produced by the current level of politics. Hell, even our Penal system and Judicial system is a complete joke.

It's about furthering ones career, or solidifying ones place in the nomination. Not what's right or wrong. I for one thank God Bush cannot be re-elected. Lord know, the world might not make it if he was......

okay. Blast away. :::sits down, grabs a water, and smiles::::::

snowbunny

If anyone wants to understand how political boundaries got drawn so that we have what we have today, WWII is *the* place to start. The rise of the Eastern Bloc, the creation of Jordan and Israel out of Palestine, the decolonialisation of Asia and Africa, the creation of Taiwan by Chiang Kai-Shek.... all of this arose from WWII.

Though they are a bit hard going in places, Churchill's memoirs are a good place to start. Yeah, he was a bit pompous, but then again, you probably had to be in order to survive.

Stalin was a Hitler unto himself. It was the Russian people and the Russian army (the part that survived Stalin's purge) that were the heroes.

Wintersong

First intelligent thing you've said

snowbunny

Well, I agree completely here.

What's your solution? There are plenty more politicians like Bush waiting in the wings, and the American public are not getting more enlightened or involved.

Manc

Well the USA/UK dropped a blob there, I know Potsdam had already divided up Germany. and there was no real incentive for them to get to Berlin first. But it did allow Stalin to get to the nazi nuclear research facility first before us.

Manc

so how come you're allowed to say it but I am not?

you're arguement's are sound, you're logic over whom can express them are not.

Pigtails

[QUOTE=SBG&DHY]

I for one thank God Bush cannot be re-elected. Lord know, the world might not make it if he was......
QUOTE]

See! I knew you weren't a real marine!