carcajou

Not every issue is a litmus test of the national psyche. Sometimes people just break the law and face a consequence for it.

nun

Agreed, not every issue is a litmus test, but some are. I can see that the deportation of these people after I-130 hearings is widely accepted as the right thing to do, but for me that is an indicator of how authoritarian and cruel we have become. There is leeway in the law to allow these people to stay and obtain Green Cards, but it seems that that is not a popular interpretation.....and that makes me sad....as well as the families involved.

Pulaski

What makes me sad is how stupid people are - "I'll just ignore the law. Surely nothing bad will happen to me, because I'm, well, special."

And apparently a lot of them are breeding.

scrubbedexpat099

If ll other options are out then a USC etc is the way to go. Some buy it.

ian-mstm

I also don't like to see families broken up - but sometimes that's the practical consequence of the action. It seems that you're suggesting that it's okay for people to gain an immigration benefit by virtue of breaking the law.

I may be an immigrant, but I don't believe in amnesty for those who deliberately break the law. I do, however, believe in amnesty for the children whose parents broke the law and dragged them along for the ride.

As you say, it's not a popular interpretation.

Ian

nun

I think you position is a very popular. Giving alien children, who have grown up in the US, a path to residency is something that many people see as fair. My position that allows the spouse of a US citizen who is already in the US contrary to the immigration laws to have a direct path to residency is definitely unpopular. But my focus is to minimize the disruption to the immediate family rather than punish the non-US spouse and avoid years of separation and trying to get the non-US spouse back into the US or getting the family permission to move to the non-US spouse's country.

hungryhorace

Good.

morpeth

In addition to immigration laws there are many other laws that when people violate, then their families suffer. I really am trying to understand why people who break the law shouldn't suffer consequences- especially when the lack of consequences then can encourage more to break the law.

This is really getting to be an absurd situation in the US. Serious border control efforts don't get support, tolerance of people breaking immigration laws, then ( from well-meaning) efforts to minimize the impact of families would just then encourage more to violate the law.

If we go to other countries we would be expected to follow their immigration laws. What is wrong with Western countries ?

The of course the effect on those earning low wages of this crazy situation with undocumented workers, but of course those that want a lenient policy don't have to pay for it. Then there is consideration of how the undocumented workers are treated, and by letting Mexico have such an outlet of their people coming to US reducing pressures on the Mexican government to get its act together.

In my family we have dealt with immigration, yes often unfair and often hurts families, why should people who follow the rules, pay the legal and other fees to do things right, then see people who ignore and flout the laws given a free pass.

nun

Certainly criminal violations should not be rewarded.....ie things like robbery and assault. But civil violations or parking tickets should not stop people from getting back into immigration compliance. That was the case in the previous administration, but ICE has change the application of the law which seems to be popular. I think that it's a misguided policy, but I'm in the minority.

morpeth

While living in in US I was in an area where came across many people who were undocumented, many of them we socialized with. By and large the majority were decent people. That doesn't change the fact they broke the law and continued to do so, and by being able to do so they could encourage their relatives and friends also to come. By being good-hearted as you advocate, it just compounds the problem over and over and over.

So the objection is ICE applying the law ? What are they supposed to do, not apply the law ?

I must be getting old, it is like an alternative universe we are living in. Try to control the border, objections to that. Try to enforce immigration law, objections to that.

Actually I was referring to other laws besides immigration laws- there are many laws that if those breaking the law had consequences, their families would also suffer. That isn't a reason by definition to not enforce laws.

And what about people in low wage occupations, why should they have to compete with lower wages to get a job or keep one ?

I agree with you that much of the results of such immigration actions is heartless, but tolerating breaking the law and the massive amount of low skilled immigrants entering the country illegally since Reagan granted amnesty cant continue and have beneficial results.

Pulaski

A very nice summary of the arguments (not that any are needed) for enforcing the dämn law!

The only thing I would add is that, much as I am a fan of Ronald Reagan, what he did and what he stood for, he made a HUGE strategic error by granting an amnesty without having first secured the borders. What has happened is that millions of illegal immigrants have arrived fully expecting that sooner or later there's going to be another amnesty!

Leslie

All of the criminals who have ever employed an undocumented worker need to be rounded up, thus separating them from their families, and have the full force of the law thrown at them. After they get out of prison they should never be allowed to own or manage a business again.

nun

Without a little nuance here lots of people will be hurt unnecessarily. I can't see why people have such a hard time with the previous ICE interpretation of LIFE for the small number of non-US people with US spouses that offered a path to residency. The larger immigration issue certainly needs to be handled better as the laissez faire attitude of numerous congresses has produced a ridiculous contradiction in the minds of many people.

nun

While I can see he irony of you post, it would be another example of and application of the law with more negative consequences than positive.

Leslie

I know. I just think it's necessary to periodically show the hypocrisy of these supposed "law and order" folks. If they really cared about "the law" then they would be more consistent. What it really comes down to is how much you identify with the law breaker.