Sicko - so who has now seen the film?
#361
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Odd really, because allthough the Govt. running it might be (to them) analogous to a loss of personal freedom, that Govt. is elected and therefore the general public would have a say in their system. Theoretically.
That logical disconnect is quite strange.
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#362
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Its to do with the "litiguous mentality" Americans are raised with.
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(re. Avastin being widely used for breast cancer in the U.S. and Europe, when it was just FDA approved for breast cancer yesterday)
Apparently not misleading. Today's article (which says it has been proved that Avastin improved progression-free survival, but not overall survival) includes:
“I think it’s just a matter of time before a survival benefit is documented,” said Dr. Amy D. Tiersten, an associate professor at New York University, who said she routinely used Avastin off-label to treat breast cancer in her patients. Doctors are allowed to use a federally approved drug for any uses they see fit.
Avastin, also known as bevacizumab, was already being used fairly widely off label to treat breast cancer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/bu...l?ref=business
Apparently not misleading. Today's article (which says it has been proved that Avastin improved progression-free survival, but not overall survival) includes:
“I think it’s just a matter of time before a survival benefit is documented,” said Dr. Amy D. Tiersten, an associate professor at New York University, who said she routinely used Avastin off-label to treat breast cancer in her patients. Doctors are allowed to use a federally approved drug for any uses they see fit.
Avastin, also known as bevacizumab, was already being used fairly widely off label to treat breast cancer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/bu...l?ref=business
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Yep, no problem at all having to go to court to get one's rights when one has a life-threatening disease:
So she not only had her treatment delayed a couple of months before she found a charity that would pay for it, but she was saddled with a medical bill she couldn't pay and had to deal with taking legal action to assert her rights. ASnd yet your predictable knee-jerk response "but couple months delay can certainly happen in socialized systems". Pathetic.
This woman got justice. Most who get dumped by the insurance companies don't. Hopefully things will now change.
Wtf? Well let's all get cancer, get denied treatment and have to take legal action against our insuers.
The point is you don't insure people when they are healthy and then drop them when they get sick and cost you $$$. Leaving aside whether insurance companies should be allowed to exclude people with pre-existing conditions, they should only be able drop people when they apply for coverage, not when they turn out to be costing them money.
Sounds pretty reasonable. Chances of it happening?
So she not only had her treatment delayed a couple of months before she found a charity that would pay for it, but she was saddled with a medical bill she couldn't pay and had to deal with taking legal action to assert her rights. ASnd yet your predictable knee-jerk response "but couple months delay can certainly happen in socialized systems". Pathetic.
This woman got justice. Most who get dumped by the insurance companies don't. Hopefully things will now change.
Wtf? Well let's all get cancer, get denied treatment and have to take legal action against our insuers.
The point is you don't insure people when they are healthy and then drop them when they get sick and cost you $$$. Leaving aside whether insurance companies should be allowed to exclude people with pre-existing conditions, they should only be able drop people when they apply for coverage, not when they turn out to be costing them money.
Sounds pretty reasonable. Chances of it happening?
I have personal experience of someone waiting under a socialized system - with probably equally dire consequences as that woman. Maybe even worse. She, after all, isn't diagnosed as terminal at this point. So I have no sense of humour at all at this point of people talking about "knee jerk responses".
I don't think anyone should have to wait for treatment for life-threatening diseases. And changing the pre-existing condition rules would solve this type of problem under the insurance system. She is somewhat at fault also - she lied about her conditions.
At least there is the option of going to court, and there is some possibility of a solution, which happened in this case. I don't think one can generally sue the government and win. If the govt just didn't have any appts available, going to court would not help.
Do I think they may eventually change the pre-existing condition stuff? Yes I do. HIPAA changed it for group policies - individual would be the next step.
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The original article claimed it was "widely used". We've already established that an off-label use would not be funded by US insurance companies, or by medicaid or medicare. So realistically, how many people would have been springing for the $10k (?) a month this drug cost and how would it's use have been distributed across society? I think readers of the NY Times would be extremely surprised that a supposedly "widely used" drug could only be funded by individuals themselves. I stick by my comment that the Times' comment was misleading at best.
Also, some insurance might be covering it - they aren't required to, but it is possible some are.
As you may notice in that article, a doctor said she was using it frequently herself (at a university) and that it was widely used.
Actual numbers, I do not know. But it does appear to have been fairly widely used, from what I can tell.
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#366
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Do you suppose that Americans are more comfortable with the idea of businesses being in charge because its a "freedom" issue to them?
Odd really, because allthough the Govt. running it might be (to them) analogous to a loss of personal freedom, that Govt. is elected and therefore the general public would have a say in their system. Theoretically.
That logical disconnect is quite strange.
Odd really, because allthough the Govt. running it might be (to them) analogous to a loss of personal freedom, that Govt. is elected and therefore the general public would have a say in their system. Theoretically.
That logical disconnect is quite strange.
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#367
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#368
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Do you suppose that Americans are more comfortable with the idea of businesses being in charge because its a "freedom" issue to them?
Odd really, because allthough the Govt. running it might be (to them) analogous to a loss of personal freedom, that Govt. is elected and therefore the general public would have a say in their system. Theoretically.
That logical disconnect is quite strange.
Odd really, because allthough the Govt. running it might be (to them) analogous to a loss of personal freedom, that Govt. is elected and therefore the general public would have a say in their system. Theoretically.
That logical disconnect is quite strange.
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#369
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One more though re. Hilary garnishing wages for health care - isn't that what the UK does really? I mean... I don't believe that contributions towards the NHS are optional - and the taxes come out of wages right?
So isn't that *in effect* forcing the contribution, garnishing wages?
So isn't that *in effect* forcing the contribution, garnishing wages?
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#370
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You're too poor to afford it.
You're employed and your employer offers you a small selection of plans.
You're self-employed and your health record affects your coverage.
Little old you suing a billion-dollar corporation is hardly an alternative way to get control.
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Providing the "best care" is an important thing. That basically says that many of the US citizens DO end up with the best care in the world. Not something to ignore, nor destroy.
If the uninsured are addressed, perhaps we migiht end up with the best system. Remains to be seen of course.
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#372
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HIPPA was a bandage to stop the bleeding. A bandage over a bandage over a bandage. But the wound is septic and bandaging it again is still not going to heal it.
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And some of the proposals re. health care reform address such concerns. Govt subsidies for those with lower income.
Providing the "best care" is an important thing. That basically says that many of the US citizens DO end up with the best care in the world. Not something to ignore, nor destroy.
If the uninsured are addressed, perhaps we migiht end up with the best system. Remains to be seen of course.
Providing the "best care" is an important thing. That basically says that many of the US citizens DO end up with the best care in the world. Not something to ignore, nor destroy.
If the uninsured are addressed, perhaps we migiht end up with the best system. Remains to be seen of course.
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The company offers a discount on the drug for people making less than $100,000 per year.
Also, some insurance might be covering it - they aren't required to, but it is possible some are.
As you may notice in that article, a doctor said she was using it frequently herself (at a university) and that it was widely used.
Actual numbers, I do not know. But it does appear to have been fairly widely used, from what I can tell.
Also, some insurance might be covering it - they aren't required to, but it is possible some are.
As you may notice in that article, a doctor said she was using it frequently herself (at a university) and that it was widely used.
Actual numbers, I do not know. But it does appear to have been fairly widely used, from what I can tell.
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