fatbrit

There's a silly assumption over here that health care is a free market -- and therefore the customer will get the best bang for the buck. But it isn't a free market at all -- it's a government-regulated market so that the insurers manage to cream off half the pie for their own profits. Pure bloody madness -- but many have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

Xebedee

This really sounds pompous, but its because the Brits have more of a social concience and are more apt to do something for the "common good".
Americans are more of the "lone wolf" type.
Thank the Germans for that one?

As for the rich/poor thing of bulletin board posters. Considering what it takes to get over here now, that may well skew the demographics a bit.
But we had sweet FA for a long time here.
And bloody well proud of it lad.

Giantaxe

They've swallowed the scare tactics that any alternative to basing access primarily on employer-provided private health insurance is worse. Just label any alternative mechanism as "socialized medicine" (as all Americans know from birth socialism is evil...) and use your lobbying $$$$ to drum the message home and bribe Congress to keep the status quo. Sad but effective.

Xebedee

You've been studying this haven't you?

It would be nice to see the US evolve socially by adopting (the better) habits and methods from across the pond. Hopefully, we, in this country are seeing the beginnings of the demise of the right wing as it exists. Hopefully moreso, Washington won't go apesh!t and repeat what appears to have happened in English society over recent years.
"Controlled Socialism?" hmmm.
Going to have to think of another word tho.

Giantaxe

It sounds pompous but it certainly matches my experience. The Americans I have discussed healthcare with tend to be relatively wealthy, in pretty good health and have insurance provided by their employers. Most either see no problem with the system, or believe minor insurance tinkering of the sort suggested by Tracy will solve all the issues. And most believe the alternatives are worse, whilst having little knowledge of what alternative systems other countries use. They have totally bought the socialized medicine scare tactic. A few, to their credit, are able to see an access problem for people who don't have good health insurance.

This is why I'm pessimistic that change is going to come soon.

Xebedee

Do you think those who are complacent and comfortable are in a majority? Were that the case, why are we seeing such a push for some sort of universal system here? Something is defo going on.
There is nothing unusual about Tracy's opinions. They are pretty commonplace amongst those who are on the "happy side" of the problem. Fortunately for them and due somewhat to their own efforts.
But were they to experience the total loss of coverage and real dire medical straits (heaven forbid wishing that on anyone - even Conservative Republicans ) surely their tune would change.
Which is just human nature, yeah?

Again, its that subtle at least or even blatant "lone wolf - I'm alright Jack" mentality that tends to define an American's view of his/her/its society. Which, in all fairness to the world in general, should not stay like that.

Hiro11

Ugg. Compare US and UK rates of private and corporate donations any time you like, jackass.

Giantaxe

The answer is $55k for a year's supply for anyone with an income under $100k. Almost certainly that price will push its cost beyond what a large chunk of the population can afford.

Cape Blue

Are these not mostly religious & political donations - to help buy ones chosen political party into power or pay for ones spot in the god club?

Tootsie Frickensprinkles

Very rich people and corporations giving away money for tax breaks, popularity contests and there own causes doesn't count matey. A penny from a poor man is worth a thousand from the rich. Meaningful personal charitable donations probably dont differ much either side of the pond but that's not what was being inferred anyway.

One of the major characteristics of a social democracy is the sense of equity it produces which just does not exist in America. Like I said in one of my first posts on this board, most Europeans find the idea of the US healthcare system utterly abhorant, and its for that for very reason. Not to mention the fact it then doesn't work in practice either.

Having universal healthcare is as integral to our belief systems as not having it is to most Americans. I happen to believe the principles spill into many other facets of life too, but that's not the point today.

Xebedee

Corporations only donate to charity to either improve PR or get some kind of financial break. They don't even f@rt unless its for financial gain.
Take away the annual tax breaks and how many people in the US would continue to donate the same?
Besides, gauging the value of social awareness as being measured in deniro's is pretty base, don't you think?
Jackass is a good US term. Here's another one: @sshole.

And yeah, it did sound pompous and I detest pompous, but couldn't think of another way to describe that particular social difference.

Tootsie Frickensprinkles

My old lecturer used to describe it as taught individual responsibility vs taught social responsibilty. Whether anyone agrees that's accurate or not is another thing but it is easier to swallow.

In its extremes its individualism vs collectivism but better not say that

Dan725

I think you've hit the nail right on the head there. This permeates throughout many aspects of US society, not just the healthcare system. And, as you say, attempts to be less jack are seen as "Socialism". Utter f@@king 1950's nonsense still alive and well today.

jumping doris

I'll just throw a bit more petrol on the flames.....

We have just received our local school district newsletter.
One of the school caretakers has been diagnosed with cancer and didn't have enough sick leave for all his treatment. The school district staff have all donated some of theirr days to him so that he can take enough time off.
The whole article was patting them on the back for their generosity, and of course they have been generous.

Why is there no mention of the underlying problem of not giving someone enough time in the first place!

Giantaxe

Because Americans have been "conditioned" to accept that a limited number of sick days is the norm.