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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   USA (https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/)
-   -   Is this really, that terrible compared to UK? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/really-terrible-compared-uk-701955/)

Gabgoeshome Jan 23rd 2011 2:50 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 9123980)
Given this is a person who claimed to still be making "NHS contributions", I wouldn't hold your breath for that!
:rofl:

AmerLisa Jan 23rd 2011 4:10 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 9123971)
If she's 95, she's made out like a bandit from 30 years of almost single-payer Medicare, that some here in the US decry as "socialized medicine". Someone of her age will have paid very little into the system - probably about 10 to 15 years of contributions in the 60's and '70's.
I can assure you, she is 95, she'll be 96 in September. She doesn't have a care in the world and I hope I live to be that carefree some day....

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 9123971)
Compare and contrast to the situation prior to medicare, where 50% of seniors had zero insurance, and where the first serious illness that didn't kill them frequently bankrupted them. Your grandmother should be very thankful for Medicare and the purported horrors of "socialized medicine".
Prior to Medicare, insurance wasn't needed. People paid for their medical bills usually in cash, or made other arrangements. They weren't bankrupted by medical bills as they are now. You really have no clue as to how life was in the US before all this medical insurance malarky got out of hand, do you?


Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 9123971)
Well, I suppose if you ignore all the studies that mark an inability to pay medical bills as the leading cause of personal bankruptcy, you're right.
And yet somehow we all seem to continue living, putting one foot in front of the other..... You better look under the bed before you go to sleep tonite, the boogeyman might be under there... :rolleyes:

Nyz Jan 23rd 2011 4:12 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Derrygal (Post 9122905)
[/B]

That's exactly how I feel. I don't hate it here, but the older I get, the more I wish I hadn't come here. I dread getting old in this country.
Apologies, haven't read through the rest of the thread yet, but exactly this!

I just came back from London and I really, really wish we'd never come here, moving back would be so hard and each passing year makes it harder :thumbdown:

nettlebed Jan 23rd 2011 4:13 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Nyz (Post 9124094)
Apologies, haven't read through the rest of the thread yet, but exactly this!

I just came back from London and I really, really wish we'd never come here, moving back would be so hard and each passing year makes it harder :thumbdown:
Does either of you still have UK citizenship? Why not move back?

Desdemona Jan 23rd 2011 4:20 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by AmerLisa (Post 9124085)
I can assure you, she is 95, she'll be 96 in September. She doesn't have a care in the world and I hope I live to be that carefree some day....
Just like my grandmother who died at the ripe old age of 84 two years ago. She travelled every year with my grandad and with her friends after he died and had a very nice life.

Prior to Medicare, insurance wasn't needed. People paid for their medical bills usually in cash, or made other arrangements. They weren't bankrupted by medical bills as they are now. You really have no clue as to how life was in the US before all this medical insurance malarky got out of hand, do you?
No, they have no idea :rolleyes:

And yet somehow we all seem to continue living, putting one foot in front of the other..... You better look under the bed before you go to sleep tonite, the boogeyman might be under there... :rolleyes:
:lol:

traceym Jan 23rd 2011 4:24 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Sorry folks my bad, I meant to write NI contributions not NHS, and FYI I pay them because I have to not because I'm planning on going back!

Giantaxe Jan 23rd 2011 4:39 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by AmerLisa (Post 9124085)
Prior to Medicare, insurance wasn't needed. People paid for their medical bills usually in cash, or made other arrangements. They weren't bankrupted by medical bills as they are now. You really have no clue as to how life was in the US before all this medical insurance malarky got out of hand, do you?
The reason Medicare was enacted (and enacted with a good deal of bipartisan support I might add) was for the exact reasons I stated:- that only 50% of seniors had insurance of any sort and that they were frequently bankrupted by their first serious illness. It seems you are the one that has no clue.

Originally Posted by AmerLisa (Post 9124085)
And yet somehow we all seem to continue living, putting one foot in front of the other..... You better look under the bed before you go to sleep tonite, the boogeyman might be under there... :rolleyes:
Are you saying that surveys that conclude that inability to pay medical bills is the leading cause of personal bankruptcy are simply fiction? I guess the folks at Harvard Medical School should be checking under their beds too :rolleyes:

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/h...e?_s=PM:HEALTH

Desdemona Jan 23rd 2011 4:47 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Are you saying that surveys that conclude that inability to pay medical bills is the leading cause of personal bankruptcy are simply fiction?
In the present day and age, yes! Amerlisa is a supporter of healthcare reform as I am. We have talked about these issues in other threads. It's going to take a little more time but we will have universal healthcare in some form or the other at some point. Even the people who have opposed it to this point are coming round .... you'll see.

AmerLisa Jan 23rd 2011 4:54 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 9124126)
The reason Medicare was enacted (and enacted with a good deal of bipartisan support I might add) was for the exact reasons I stated:- that only 50% of seniors had insurance of any sort and that they were frequently bankrupted by their first serious illness. It seems you are the one that has no clue.
Probably more of a clue than you. You never heard about anyone being bankrupted because of lack of health insurance in the 60's. Granted I was a little kid, but I still remember when we got medical insurance for the first time, and that was in the 70's. Seriously, you really think its the same then, as it is now? You're pretty deluded. The whole story isn't always contained in your stats.


Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 9124126)
Are you saying that surveys that conclude that inability to pay medical bills is the leading cause of personal bankruptcy are simply fiction?
Are you saying that people are hiding under their beds in fear because of this?

Do you think that people don't want a change? Of course they do, I'm all for it. I don't like my health insurance and I ended up with some ridiculous medical bills last year because we had such a high deductible. But guess what, we still got up and went on with our lives.

Giantaxe Jan 23rd 2011 5:25 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by AmerLisa (Post 9124151)
Probably more of a clue than you. You never heard about anyone being bankrupted because of lack of health insurance in the 60's. Granted I was a little kid, but I still remember when we got medical insurance for the first time, and that was in the 70's. Seriously, you really think its the same then, as it is now? You're pretty deluded. The whole story isn't always contained in your stats.
Never claimed it was the same then as now. However, the idea that health insurance didn't exist back then and that people weren't bankrupted by an inability to pay medical bills is simply a fiction:

The elderly population was continuing to increase at a rapid rate. Between 1950 and 1963, their number grew from about 12 million to 17.5 million, or from 8.1 to 9.4 percent of the total population. Meanwhile, the cost of hospital care continued to rise at about 6.7 percent a year, several times the annual increase in the cost of living. From 1960 to 1964, average hospital costs increased from about $29 to $40 a day, with no sign of any letup in the rate of increase. As a result, private health insurance carriers were repeatedly forced to increase premium rates (or else "bleed" the coverage of their policies), making private insurance ever more prohibitive (or less adequate) for the many old people who were living on fixed incomes. By 1964 the proportion of the aged who were privately insured for hospital care seemed to be leveling off at about 50 percent. A Senate study that year estimated that only one-half of the policies issued to retirees provided comprehensive coverage (75 percent or more of the average hospital bill). In other words, only about 1 in 4 of the aged had adequate hospital insurance protection. (28)
http://www.ssa.gov/history/corningchap4.html

And contemporaneously from Lyndon Johnson, whose judgment on this issue I'd place just a tad higher than Amerlisa speaking 45 years in arrears:

No longer will illness crush and destroy the savings that they have so carefully, put away over a lifetime so that they might enjoy dignity in their later years. No longer will young families see their own incomes, and their own hopes, eaten away simply because they are carrying out their deep moral obligations to their parents, and to their uncles, and their aunts.
http://healthcarereform.procon.org/v...ourceID=003808

Bottom line: you're wrong.

Originally Posted by AmerLisa (Post 9124151)
Are you saying that people are hiding under their beds in fear because of this?
Never made any claim they were or weren't. My comment was on the leading cause of personal bankruptcy.

Originally Posted by AmerLisa (Post 9124151)
Do you think that people don't want a change? Of course they do, I'm all for it. I don't like my health insurance and I ended up with some ridiculous medical bills last year because we had such a high deductible. But guess what, we still got up and went on with our lives.
Well, good for you. As we've seen even on this thread, some aren't so fortunate. And many like the person in this thread end up bankrupt.

airways Jan 23rd 2011 8:07 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by nethead (Post 9123609)
As a family of 5 (then) just over 5 years ago, we paid 19 GBP a month for BUPA coverage through my husbands work.
As a family of 2 BUPA costs us £390 per month. You have a bit if a shock coming if you think it's all great here on the NHS. The waiting lists are years long........

Michael Jan 23rd 2011 8:22 pm
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by AmerLisa (Post 9124151)
Probably more of a clue than you. You never heard about anyone being bankrupted because of lack of health insurance in the 60's. Granted I was a little kid, but I still remember when we got medical insurance for the first time, and that was in the 70's. Seriously, you really think its the same then, as it is now? You're pretty deluded. The whole story isn't always contained in your stats.
I'm going to partially agree with you. In 1950 the average health care cost (in todays dollars) was about 1/12th of what it is today. Of course not much was provided except fixing broken limbs, providing vaccinations, getting a penicillin shot for any infection, a dieretic for high blood pressure, insulin for diabetes, TB treatment, and a doctor or nurse to comfort you. The cost of health care for a person was probably not much different than what the average person pays in copays today. Therefore bankruptcies due to medical bills was not a major problem in the 1950s.

However by the 1960s, medical technology (kidney transplants, open heart surgery, heart bypass surgery, pacemakers, hip implants, new drugs, etc.) was starting to be used regularly and health care costs started running away causing bankruptcies due to medical bills to drastically increase especially for the aged. In the 1950s, most people didn't even make it to the hospital during a heart attack or stroke (if they did, they likely died within a couple of days) and it wasn't until the 1960s that I saw someone disabled due to a stroke. The number of bankruptcies for the aged was one of the main reasons that medicare was enacted during the 1960s.

Actually employer provided health insurance was also very common at that time. At that time, the US was the supplier to the world and mining, aircraft, heavy equipment, auto. computer, and many other large companies had very good health plans for their employers and families.

nethead Jan 24th 2011 12:40 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by airways (Post 9124370)
As a family of 2 BUPA costs us £390 per month. You have a bit if a shock coming if you think it's all great here on the NHS. The waiting lists are years long........
Like I said in my next post we were only paying 19 pounds as it was a company benefit.

And I've no idea why you think I'll be shocked at the waits with the NHS, as I never even mentioned the NHS or moving back to the UK. But as it is I have family in the UK and know from my previous experience and theirs now that they've never had a long wait for any medical emergency or treatment with the NHS. But it's all subjective, the same as medical experiences here in the US.

Newfarnley Jan 24th 2011 12:54 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Derrygal (Post 9122905)
[/B]

That's exactly how I feel. I don't hate it here, but the older I get, the more I wish I hadn't come here. I dread getting old in this country.
I feel the same way! I'm 60 and have been thinking about my future here. However, my husband would never move back to England.

Gabgoeshome Jan 24th 2011 1:10 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by nethead (Post 9124818)
Like I said in my next post we were only paying 19 pounds as it was a company benefit.

And I've no idea why you think I'll be shocked at the waits with the NHS, as I never even mentioned the NHS or moving back to the UK. But as it is I have family in the UK and know from my previous experience and theirs now that they've never had a long wait for any medical emergency or treatment with the NHS. But it's all subjective, the same as medical experiences here in the US.
Have to add this : my poor Grandmother paid all her life in to BUPA .

Without going in to boring detail the chosen BUPA hospital loused something up ,only to be repaired by the good old Norwich and Norfolk !!!!!

Unfortunately my beloved Granny passed from complications ,however she never had to wait to be seen .

Sometimes you get a waiting list in the UK ,MANY times people go bankrupt in the US .
My husband works with ladies who have no chance of visiting the Doctor and have to resort to home potions ...this is 2011 .

I have had wonderful treatment in the US ,I have insurance though -I am one of the lucky ones .

Rougesvp Jan 24th 2011 3:37 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
I've skip read thru many of the posts on this thread...

I've been here going on 5yrs. I have medical insurance, even with that some treatments cost an arm and a leg. A single puncture wound from a dog bite, which was irrigated and one stitch put it, cost me $1800... I would have had change out of a round-trip air ticket going home to use the NHS!!!

I still pay NI as I have property at home (UK).

My line of works involves death scenes; when I go to a suicide and the note basically states the person has taken their life because they cannot afford the meds and/or healthcare... the system clearly does not work!

As for UK or US.... if I roughly do the maths, I'm sure the US is more expensive! My poll tax on a 4 bed detached in Bath was 2000GBP. Here on a4bed detached near Dallas, TX its $12k.... And thats just for starters... fortunately I don't own a red car... that's a whole other story!

All that said.... the sun is out! :D

Sally Redux Jan 24th 2011 3:42 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
I think the American view is that nothing bad can happen to you if you work hard and behave yourself. Therefore if something bad happens to you, it is your own fault and a failure on your part. It is the total opposite of Hindu philosophy where things are 'written' and not your fault. It can lead to what I find a rather harsh view of how society should be run, but if you buy into it, you just have to keep believing that you won't be one of the unlucky ones. And maybe you won't.

Desdemona Jan 24th 2011 6:33 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Rougesvp (Post 9125165)
the note basically states the person has taken their life because they cannot afford the meds and/or healthcare... the system clearly does not work!
I don't see anyone here saying the system worked :confused: It's flawed like any system anywhere in the world. No one claimed it was perfect. The dems have been pushing for healthcare reform for years. At last we have a foot in the door now and I am fairly confident that some form of universal healthcare will be fully implemented by the year 2014. Sorry to hear you expats winging about conditions here. Most of you have the luxury of dual citizenship if you are citizens already. So what's the gripe :huh:

Giantaxe Jan 24th 2011 6:52 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Desdemona (Post 9125485)
I Sorry to hear you expats winging about conditions here. Most of you have the luxury of dual citizenship if you are citizens already. So what's the gripe :huh:
I don't think it's winging to point out that a major negative about living in the US is its truly asinine system of health care access. Nor would I presume that when the dust settles, we'll have anything approaching universal coverage here. After all, Obama's is just the latest attempt in a sorry litany of failed attempts, and many vested interests will do everything in their power over the next few years to undermine it.

Deeks Jan 24th 2011 6:54 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by nethead (Post 9123615)
I'm with the, it's ok living here, we're getting on with it, some things are better, some are worse, some are about the same. But I wish we hadn't bothered moving here in the first place.
Just curious, why did you move there in the first place?

airways Jan 24th 2011 7:02 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Deeks (Post 9125536)
Just curious, why did you move there in the first place?
Because Brits need something to complain about all the time. We almost rival the Canadians in that respect....... ;)

Sally Redux Jan 24th 2011 7:03 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by airways (Post 9125555)
Because Brits need something to complain about all the time. We almost rival the Canadians in that respect....... ;)
Says the person living in the UK :rolleyes:

beachgal21 Jan 24th 2011 7:03 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Desdemona (Post 9125485)
I don't see anyone here saying the system worked :confused: It's flawed like any system anywhere in the world. No one claimed it was perfect. The dems have been pushing for healthcare reform for years. At last we have a foot in the door now and I am fairly confident that some form of universal healthcare will be fully implemented by the year 2014. Sorry to hear you expats winging about conditions here. Most of you have the luxury of dual citizenship if you are citizens already. So what's the gripe :huh:
I've read every post on this discussion and was mentally making a list of the reasons I would add in my post as to why, after 10 years of living in the USA I wanted to leave...... And then I read your post! Now I've decided that it would be a complete waste of my time to outline all my different reasons for leaving because your post sums it up beautifully. Your "I'm alright Jack" attitude is the thing I most despise about this country .

Rougesvp Jan 24th 2011 7:13 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Beachgal: I think you have something there....

Anyone coming here, must be very aware that you are "on your own".

Predominantly, everyone is out to make a "fast buck", new arrivals are fair game!

Here in TX, if you want something doing; well, honestly and in a timely fashion; get someone who's and expat from another Nation not too far away. They're realistic with their prices and want to work!

It took me a while to appreciate the points above.... now I know the score, it's all good! :cool:

Desdemona Jan 24th 2011 7:15 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 9125531)
I don't think it's winging to point out that a major negative about living in the US is its truly asinine system of health care access. Nor would I presume that when the dust settles, we'll have anything approaching universal coverage here. After all, Obama's is just the latest attempt in a sorry litany of failed attempts, and many vested interests will do everything in their power over the next few years to undermine it.
I don't doubt that for a minute. It will be interesting to see how things play out. The Chris Matthews show had some interesting commets on that. They think the Republicans (and some dems) are now leaning towards compromise. Only time will tell.

Desdemona Jan 24th 2011 7:23 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by beachgal21 (Post 9125558)
I've read every post on this discussion and was mentally making a list of the reasons I would add in my post as to why, after 10 years of living in the USA I wanted to leave...... And then I read your post! Now I've decided that it would be a complete waste of my time to outline all my different reasons for leaving because your post sums it up beautifully. Your "I'm alright Jack" attitude is the thing I most despise about this country .
Seriously, I'm not happy about what's going on in this country right now any more than you are. But we live in hope that things will get better. And I do understand why people like you may want to leave. My comment was not meant to squash anyone's point of view :unsure:

lansbury Jan 24th 2011 7:25 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by ldyinlv (Post 9123379)
Everyone makes their own choices, but based on my experience..I am going back to the UK. I thought I had it all figured out too, boy was I wrong...good luck ..;)
Enjoy yourself. I saw how my mother was treated by the NHS hospital and nursing home care in the UK and how much she had to pay for it. Treated like shit and charged her life savings for the privilege. Medical care was an alien term to them.

Rougesvp Jan 24th 2011 7:34 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
To avoid the above here buy Long Term Care Insurance!!!

And before you ask, no I'm no an Insurance Agent!

My Policy is with Genworth... part of GE.

Peace, out! :cool:

airways Jan 24th 2011 7:45 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Sally Redux (Post 9125556)
Says the person living in the UK :rolleyes:
Yep, that's why I know it's true. The British are a nation of complainers. We start with the weather and keep going!

Leslie Jan 24th 2011 7:49 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Moving to the US from another first world country and expecting a vast improvement could be folly. People from second and third world countries may have a different experience.

Rougesvp Jan 24th 2011 8:45 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by airways (Post 9125664)
Yep, that's why I know it's true. The British are a nation of complainers. We start with the weather and keep going!
You can't blame the Brits for complaining about the weather!

Be fair... it is awful! :rofl:

I'm stuggling with sunny and 60F here today! :thumbup:

nethead Jan 24th 2011 8:50 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Deeks (Post 9125536)
Just curious, why did you move there in the first place?
I'm married to an American, we thought the grass might greener on the otherside, but it isn't :o I knew before we left it was the wrong decision, but felt like it was too late to change my mind after we had paid for my visa, had a house etc...

nethead Jan 24th 2011 8:55 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by airways (Post 9125555)
Because Brits need something to complain about all the time. We almost rival the Canadians in that respect....... ;)
I think you'll find I didn't complain about anything, just because I'd rather not have moved to the US doesn't mean I'm miserable here, I make the most of it, try not to be too negative and live my life. So quite your snarky comments. Thanks.

airways Jan 24th 2011 9:04 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by nethead (Post 9125856)
I think you'll find I didn't complain about anything, just because I'd rather not have moved to the US doesn't mean I'm miserable here, I make the most of it, try not to be too negative and live my life. So quite your snarky comments. Thanks.
Grow up and regain your British sense of humour. Do you remember British self depreciating humour?

I was not having a go at you, I was remarking on how WE as nation need to complain about everything or we are not happy. Humour, try it on for size........

nethead Jan 24th 2011 9:08 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by airways (Post 9125879)
Grow up and regain your British sense of humour. Do you remember British self depreciating humour?

I was not having a go at you, I was remarking on how WE as nation need to complain about everything or we are not happy. Humour, try it on for size........
You quoted a post that asked me a question, so I thought I'd answer you, and it seems most of your posts are critical of the the UK. My sense of humour's fine thanks.

Rougesvp Jan 24th 2011 9:14 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Eh! Eh! Eh! Eh! Calm Down! Calm Down!

nethead Jan 24th 2011 9:20 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by Rougesvp (Post 9125896)
Eh! Eh! Eh! Eh! Calm Down! Calm Down!
I'm perfectly calm, I'm not so sure about airways :blink:

airways Jan 24th 2011 9:21 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by nethead (Post 9125884)
You quoted a post that asked me a question, so I thought I'd answer you, and it seems most of your posts are critical of the the UK. My sense of humour's fine thanks.
Yep, its another thing we British do. We are allowed to be critical of our home country.

If you are coming back here you are going to be pretty miserable if you have forgotten the backbone of British society, is self depreciating humour, sarcasm and the right to complain about anything an everything.

It's what we do, rather well.......

I quoted your post by accident, forgot to untick the default setting of quote message in reply.........

nethead Jan 24th 2011 9:31 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by airways (Post 9125919)
Yep, its another thing we British do. We are allowed to be critical of our home country.

If you are coming back here you are going to be pretty miserable if you have forgotten the backbone of British society, is self depreciating humour, sarcasm and the right to complain about anything an everything.

It's what we do, rather well.......

I quoted your post by accident, forgot to untick the default setting of quote message in reply.........
The funny thing is when you move away from your home country you tend to become more defensive of it...

Nutmegger Jan 24th 2011 9:32 am
Re: Is this really, that terrible compared to UK?
 
Originally Posted by airways (Post 9125919)
the backbone of British society, is self depreciating humour, sarcasm and the right to complain about anything an everything.
Any connection to self-deprecating?


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