Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
My issue with this is I have already given my fingerprints to obtain PR status (this was pre 9/11) isn't it just a waste of money taking them again? I think this is the main bitch for most current PR's.
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Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by nettlebed
(Post 7093115)
Uhm, should that not be April 19, 1995?
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Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
This morning I was talking to a work colleague whose German. She's a long time PR here and recently renewed her German passport. It seems Big Brother has begun in Germany. All German citizens are now required to provide fingerprints for passport issue and renewal:
"The German foreign missions in the United States issue passports to German citizens residing there ("European passports"). For children under the age of 12 with German citizenship, a child’s passport may also be issued instead of a regular passport. A new passport law has been in effect since Nov. 1, 2007. Under this new law, fingerprints also must be stored on a chip contained in German passports. This affects all passport applicants six years and older. It is therefore absolutely necessary that you personally go to the foreign mission responsible for your consular district to apply for the passport. Passport applications received by mail can no longer be processed" http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/u..._Passport.html Weather they are checking against a database on entry to Germany I don't know. What would be the point in collecting the information if you're not gonna verify it? |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by nettlebed
(Post 7093115)
But your points are very well taken.
And the fundamental problem that you touch on, and that most people in the government seem to ignore is the base rate fallacy. When you try to identify anything where its population is minute compared to the rest of the population (e.g. terrorist from non-terrorists) So why weren't all white American males finger printed and evaluated after 1995? Because, presumably, an incident caused by someone with serious mental issues and misguided beliefs was considered a one off and shouldn't represent the mind set of all white American males. The one off tragedy wasn't considered enough to justify the stripping of civil liberties and a "presumed guilty until proven innocent" approach for massive portions of the population. I never met the individuals who caused the 9/11 tragedy, but one would have to assume they also had some sort of mental issue or, at the very least, misguided beliefs. And thankfully (touching every piece of wood in sight) has represented a one off tragedy. And yet, for reasons that border upon xenophobic, history has not repeated itself. I choose to live here and will continue to abide by US laws as they pertain to GC holders. But I will also choose to do everything in my power to apply for USC when I'm eligible to at least stem the madness slightly. |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by sime303
(Post 7094022)
My issue with this is I have already given my fingerprints to obtain PR status (this was pre 9/11) isn't it just a waste of money taking them again? I think this is the main bitch for most current PR's.
My point is that this measure isn't going to achieve anything and is a lame gesture from an outgoing government who instigated the whole DHS ball of wax to address a fictitious, undefined threat after 9/11. I really wish this country, who I have made my home in and will become a citizen of next year, would realize just how many freedoms are being chipped away at by unelected morons in the DHS and other quango departments. |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by hobbes79
(Post 7094477)
.... Because, presumably, an incident caused by someone with serious mental issues and misguided beliefs was considered a one off ....
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Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Agreed and not only fingerprinted but FBI checked, Interpol checked, Police checked in your local country and photographed. i.e PR's are the most checked and verified group of travelers and much less of a threat than citizens, who have had no such checks |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by TimFountain
(Post 7095690)
I really wish this country, who I have made my home in and will become a citizen of next year, would realize just how many freedoms are being chipped away at by unelected morons in the DHS and other quango departments.
Where is a Juvenal when we need one? But then again, Juvenal didn't make any difference: he just pointed the situation out... |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by TimFountain
(Post 7095695)
For a moment there I thought you were talking about GWB and his adventure in Iraq searching for WMD's. There are so many parallels in the above statement, it is scary!
Originally Posted by nettlebed
(Post 7095897)
Agree. For a country founded on freedoms and liberty, the majority of people in the US seem more than happy to see their freedoms eroded.
... What TimFountain raises above is something that seems to get little discussion in this subject area. The govt. of GWB seems to think it operates in a vacuum, in a world without consequence. They are using torture on our 'enemies', and they are incarcerating people in Guantanamo without normal due process. They invaded Iraq on a pretense, and they give almost unconditional support to Israel no matter what they do. Somewhere along the line, someone needs to connect the big, bright dots that say, pissing off an entire generation, an entire region, an entire ethnic group leads to hatred of the US and inspires the very acts that led to 9/11. I've asked some of you who complain about the erosion of rights in this country whether it's ok to invade Iran in a preemptive manner, and I got a reply that suggests it is ok. If the US were to operate as a more 'cooperative' member of the world community, we may be less of a target. |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by Steerpike
(Post 7097281)
I agree. And for a party that claims to be for smaller government, and less government intrusion, it's the Republicans that seem hell bent on eroding these freedoms. I hope that Obama and team will back off some of these measures.
The facts are, Clinton started everything that GW finished, and there's no place for partisan politics in this debate. Introducing it just debases our argument. But then, and I don't mean to be contentious, your agruments re gun control do tend to suggest that, at heart, you're sympathetic to the idea of big government intruding into the minutae of our lives. I believe in freedom. You appear to fly it as a flag of convenience. |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by chartreuse
(Post 7097513)
You see, Steerpike, while I agree with you on the fundementals, I do have a problem with the political spin that you insist on putting on things.
The facts are, Clinton started everything that GW finished, and there's no place for partisan politics in this debate. Introducing it just debases our argument. But then, and I don't mean to be contentious, your agruments re gun control do tend to suggest that, at heart, you're sympathetic to the idea of big government intruding into the minutae of our lives. I believe in freedom. You appear to fly it as a flag of convenience. I would say I'm in favor of freedom in general. But yes, I'm opposed to gun "rights", and would like to see the second amendment re-interpreted; as it probably will be at some point. That particular 'freedom' is an anachronistic bit of history that is somewhat unique to this country - but let's not divert this interesting thread on that topic :) |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by Steerpike
(Post 7097539)
I would say I'm in favor of freedom in general. But yes, I'm opposed to gun "rights", and would like to see the second amendment re-interpreted; as it probably will be at some point. That particular 'freedom' is an anachronistic bit of history that is somewhat unique to this country - but let's not divert this interesting thread on that topic :)
Must go and give the kitten some medicines now :) |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by chartreuse
(Post 7097556)
Fair enough, and I do appreciate your support on other threads. But I always thought that the point of freedom was that you didn't get to pick just the bits you like. Freedom extends from the freedom to call no man master, to the freedom to starve to death in the gutter. It's an all or nothing deal.
Must go and give the kitten some medicines now :) |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
Originally Posted by Steerpike
(Post 7097725)
What bothers me is not that people 'care' about these freedoms, it's the relative priority that is implied. To me, being fingerprinted or not is a detail, a minor inconvenience. The lack of access to basic, affordable healthcare is something real, and affects a huge percentage of the population (including me if I lose my group coverage due to unemployment!). One can have an interesting debate about whether such access to healthcare is a 'right' or not; I happen to believe it should be a right. Once we have basic healthcare for all, and basic education for all, then I might start losing sleep over being fingerprinted.
Merry Christmas anyway :) |
Re: Oh, you have a green card? Please face the camera..... Oh and welcome home
according to the Department of Homeland Security(DHS),
the reason for fingerprinting GC holders is very simple. They want to verify that you are indeed the person on the GC. I have no problems with that. (as long as the fingerprint isn't used for any other reason... and the databas is kept secure) However, it's also possible that someone to present a false US passport. |
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