gardnma

When I walked out of a bottle mill in Johnstown, NY they asked me where I was going? ......will always remember the conversation with one worker.

Where you going?
To college........
Why?
To get a degree
What for?
Engineering (I failed my Math "O" level too....)
What? You going to go work for fu(king NASA?
Maybe.......

Their mindset was no different than the worst in a factory in some parts of England......this is my lot. I can never get above this.

OK, if you really don't mind......fine. (Personally, I prefer the working class)
But it can be done. Its just bloody difficult, thats all.
I know this sounds like preaching and sorry, but I have no patience for people who refuse to try to better themselves and then don't accept responsibility for it. Who wants the soap box next?

PS: 3 years later I was a technician in a firm doing sub-contract work for guess who? "fu(kin NASA"

another bloody yank

I misunderstood you. I didn't realize you meant all blue collar workers at the same time Of course that migh cause a few challenges within the workforce. I meant there is no reason why a particular blue collar worker or even an unskilled laborer for that matter, cannot, through education and hard work change thier status. It happens all the time.


EDIT: This was meant as a reply to anotherlimey.

BigDavyG

Why do you have to turn every issue into one of sexism/racism/whateveritbloodyisthisweekism ????

Are you saying that to avoid potentially offending anyone we shouldn't even suggest that a parent should stay at home in case someone assumes that parent should be the woman and then they get offended ???

Also "sidelined to the 'Mommy-Track'" ????
Wtf does that mean - does it mean that being a mum can't be as rewarding, if not more rewarding that having a career ???
That is an incredibly demeaning statement - tells us a lot more about your attitude than any of my posts on this thread reveal about mine.

As far as I'm aware parenting is a full-time job so to pretend that you can do that whilst at the same time 'being the best you can be' at work is a nonsense. And don't throw up stupid examples of someone like Nichola Horlick (sp??) either - paying top dollar for 24 hour childcare hardly qualifies anyone for a parent of the year award and people like her who pretend they are the best in both areas only seek to perpetuate the dangerous and ridiculous myth. There is about as much chance of the parenting/job superstar thing happening as there is of someone with a full-time office job becoming the captain of the england football team.

Elvira

It would be nice if you did not put words into my mouth. Where did I say that being a mum is less rewarding than having a career? Why do you feel the two should be mutually exclusive?

If someone wants to be a stay-at-home Mum, fine.

For those of us who do not, I would appreciate not being discriminated against because I am a Mum.

anotherlimey

I think you're an exception, rather than a rule!

There's plenty of places in the US where the only work is blue collar; generations have grown up doing similar jobs.

I can't prejudice someone for working hard all their lives in a crappy job; and I wouldn't think of removing some maternity benefit so they can have a couple of children; procreation is natural, it's what we're here for.

I have no time for bums though!

gardnma

Ta.

To your point in red .......... thought we were here to practice it a lot, get better at it and occasionally use it for what it was intended......

Bob

probably average overall, but for this particular area, probably well below average *lol*

and white collar I guess...

Bob

not easy to go be a student and study when you have a family, mortgage re-payments and other bills, and especially medical insurance considerations.

another bloody yank

No, it's not.

Mercedes

You don't have to go back to the dark ages to be a mommy. Many professional mothers have made opportunities in working from home and looking after their kids. Some very successful and women millionaires have started a home based business around their kids.

As an owner of a limited company in the UK, it is a nightmare paying all the benefits that workers are entitled to. Can you imagine if the male workers decide to take paternity leave, then the mother maternity leave, the others want to take their holidays and the other decided to ring in sick? The boss would probably go into the bathroom and put a bullet in their head. Imagine the nightmare of finding replacements and cost involved.

Since I have been in my own business running companies I won't take anyone on full time basis, I subcontract the work out on a full time basis and the subcontractor has their own company. I wouldn't take on someone on the books of childbearing age, discrimination yes, so I would counter it by taking on an older woman who probably is discriminated on her age. But I don't have that problem as she would be subcontracted and I don't have to pay benefits. I know many small business who can't afford all these entitlements by workers and they are expected to even sort out the CSA because someone won't pay their wife what she is entitled to. Big corporations may be able to afford it, but small businesses can't. I know many companies who are looking at alternatives so that they don't have to pay their workers all the entitlements, because it is killing them.

I got made redundant in Australia when they brought in compulsory pensions that expected the employer to pay 3 per cent. of a staff member's annual wages. The owner who had over 50 people working for him had to let half of us go, because he couldn't afford it.

We live in a society that wants everything today, credit cards, oops can't pay it off so will go bankrupt, someone else pays. I know quite a few people who owe over a 100 k in debts because they had to have the material things now, and this is not counting their mortgage. Society in UK has become a parasite in expecting everyone to give them everything to make their lives easier for free and think it is their right. What happened to the spirit of our grandparents who felt you earned what you wanted and if you couldn't afford it, you didn't have it. Interesting there are so many people on the dole, and generations that have been, yet people from other countries are able to find work and employers are happy to hire them because they find in many cases their work ethics is better. But whilst these foreigners are working, we still pay out the dole parasites. Poor dears...

Maybe some of the problems of society is because kids have become latch door kids, who parents spoil them because they're not spending time with them. Also possibly why there are so many undisciplined brats around because they are placed into strangers hands when they are still babies and strangers are expected to teach them social skills and manners. Do they really care, they are not their kids, and it's a business to them also.

Society of today, encourages people to expect everyone else to look after them. We are all responsible for ourselves. The elderly in UK aren't being looked after by this generation, they are put into care by families who aren't interested in them or can't look after them.. Beaten up by yobs who get a ticking off. They in many cases aren't even treated with respect by those who are meant to care for them. That is happening in our generation. My father is elderly and he made provisions for his old age when he was younger, he isn't dependent on anyone for his welfare but himself. That is how it should be. If we want children we should work around how to pay for them. When we retire we should make sure we are okay. If I can't wipe my ass when I'm old and am dependent on someone else to do it, I hope that they have introduced compulsory euthanasia by then, or alternatively I'll do it myself.

A friend of mine who speaks English very badly, has brought up 3 children on her own without the support of a husband, government nor family. She started her own business so that she could support them, and made a creche for them inside it, so they were there when she worked and she could give them attention between clients. She has put her girls through university, paid for her own house and never taken anything from anyone. Her girls are well mannered and an asset to her. So there are women out there who are bringing up families without expecting society to give them anything and their children are working to support themselves and their future families.

How many times you hear now parents are supporting their children because they can't afford a first house or to leave home and also supporting their elderly parents as well. That is the reality of many nowadays, just like generations ago of the dark ages...so it goes in circles.

USBound

well I'm one of those people who came out of a little village where almost everyone works in the local shirt factory or is on the dole... and similar to above when I quit my job delivering milk I was asked...

them : where ya goin?
me : uni
them : whats that then?
me: university - to get a degree
them : you gonna go be a professor or summink?
me: er... whatever.

3 years later I had my degree and was working in an industry I love, doing exactly what I love and now 8 years after that I'm earning a good enough salary that my wife doesn't have to work for us to survive.

it was our goal and through transfers and job changes in general we got there.

SecretGarden

Did I miss something by not reading this thread carefully enough? Am I right in saying that the OP is legally entitled to have a certain amount of maternity leave (a combo. of paid and unpaid), that she plans to take it, that HR says she can take it, and that her boss is being a bit of an asshole about her being gone so long (in his opinion)?

If this is an accurate synopsis, what is the problem? Asshole bosses are everywhere in a country this big. Take your leave, enjoy your family, and return to work when your leave is done. Develop a thicker skin and get over it. You'll be a lot happier if you don't let his attitude bother you. This is not a crisis, no need to make it into one.

~SecretGarden

gardnma

Nice one Cyril ...........

BritGuyTN

Everybody's objectives in life are different - one of our friends just had a baby and after some conjecture, decided she won't be going back to work. Since this woman had a pretty wealthy upbringing and is financially high maintenance and her husband makes 35k I can see her marriage ending in divorce in the next few years, sounds harsh, but I think true.

My wife knows she has no choice but to work - if she wants river property and I want a new porsche and I earn all the money - guess what gets bought - the porsche.

When we first met she did talk about being a stay at home mom but I quickly informed her that this was not acceptable to me - why should the stress be all on me. The fact she had a stay at home mom and her older brother died during an unsupervised activity and her younger brother is an unemployable drug addict loser does not promote the concept for me....

Our plan when we have kids is to both work 4 day weeks - one monday - thurs and the other tues to fri, with the kids being in daycare the three days when we both have to work.

Hopefully this will end up with well rounded socially capable kids whose parents are not going to die of a stress related condition before old age...

Englishmum

God - you sound just like my sister's husband. They have a 5 year old and both work full time. She's *exhausted*....comes home from work (40 minute commute each way plus dropping off at school) and is cooking dinner, making sandwiches for both of them to take to work the next day, ironing clothes, tidying up, bathing the boy, reading with him and getting him off to bed.

Dad (my bro-in-law) does minimal stuff around the house and midweek will be off to play squash, go to watch the football match or down the pub for some beers with his mates. My sister goes out for aerobics on a Monday night and that's it. They can certainly afford for her to work part-time.....his parents died and he and his sister inherited a house and they got a large sum which means they have a tiny mortgatge. However, he's adamant that she continues to work full time because 'it's not fair if I work full time and she doesn't'....:curse:

I'm astonished about your attitude about stay at home mothers.....what a pathetic reason.....