British Expats
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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   USA (https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/)
-   -   Help wanted WW2! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/help-wanted-ww2-481187/)

Pony Sep 14th 2007 12:20 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Considering he could have ended up being just a fat guy with a cigar, he was truly an inspirational genius. I can't think of a man in history I would rather meet.


Originally Posted by britvic (Post 5313114)
A master with words was the man himself :thumbup:

RoadWarriorFromLP Sep 14th 2007 12:41 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by Manc (Post 5313018)
The Russians lost more people at Stalingrad than you guys did in the entire war..and they still beat you to Berlin....
I am the first to admit that the Soviets played a decisive role in the European war (as you will see if you read back on this very thread), but exactly how is this a point of pride?

The Stalinist Soviets were utterly ruthless and had zero respect for human life. At times, half of their troops were sent to the lines unarmed, with the expectation that they'd eventually acquire a weapon from a dead comrade on the battlefield.

They lost millions in large part because they regarded humans as meat for the killing machine. If they actually cared about people, they probably would have had a lot fewer casualties. Even the Germany regular army (not the SS) was often more humane than they.

Pony Sep 14th 2007 12:45 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Its hard to have respect for human life when you have fought your way back through your own villages; viewing the effects of the atrocities carried out in the name of war by the force you are now repelling.

Who said war was pleasant. Don't make me start about the Japanese :eek:

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP (Post 5313321)
I am the first to admit that the Soviets played a decisive role in the European war (as you will see if you read back on this very thread), but exactly how is this a point of pride?

The Stalinist Soviets were utterly ruthless and had zero respect for human life. At times, half of their troops were sent to the lines unarmed, with the expectation that they'd eventually acquire a weapon from a dead comrade on the battlefield.

They lost millions in large part because they regarded humans as meat for the killing machine. If they actually cared about people, they probably would have had a lot fewer casualties. Even the Germany regular army (not the SS) was often more humane than they.

RoadWarriorFromLP Sep 14th 2007 12:48 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by Pony (Post 5313326)
Its hard to have respect for human life when you have fought your way back through your own villages; viewing the effects of the atrocities carried out in the name of war by the force you are now repelling.
Perhaps you're not familiar with the pogroms? Depending upon the source, it is known that Stalin killed anywhere between 2 and 20 million people before the war even began.

Don't defend the bastard. He was as bad as Hitler, and on a par with Pol Pot. There is nothing noble whatsoever about how they treated their own people.

Triumphrob Sep 14th 2007 1:01 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 5313095)
Admit defeat...your thread's already been hijacked. :lol:
YEAH, I just want some bitchy comebacks............ A few are good so far

Duncan Roberts Sep 14th 2007 1:06 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by elfman (Post 5313175)
perhaps you're thinking of the Eagle squadrons - they were several whole RAF squadrons made up of American pilots, but the first of those didn't become operational until six months after the Battle of Britain.

Edit: wikipedia seems to suggest that the figure of seven includes those who lied about their nationality:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Bri...s_contribution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Fiske
No, I know what the Eagle squadrons were but not really a whole lot about them. I'm talking about the regular squadrons, like 601 and the 609. The Americans just seemed to always be flying at the wrong time and were almost always part of first contact with the Germans. I do know for a fact that that 7 isn't all the Americans in the battle of britain, there was at least 1 more. I really wish I could remember the book that I read that from but it was one of the guys who died and they only found out quite a time after he was American and by that time the official records were set in stone. He is listed on the roll but with a different citizenship. I admit that the battle of Britain isn't my strongest body of knowledge of the war but I have read a reasonable amount about it, not so long ago actually, especially about the American component and I'm not trying to pull stuff out my arse!

I do know a little about Billy Fiske, I think the movie coming out is about him. He is only one of the Americans who took part in the Battle of Britain but gets the most press because he was an Olympic gold medalist and the first American to die in world war 2. Unfortunately I imagine that those points are going to be the most emphazised things and it will paint a picture that is quite far from the truth.

elfman Sep 14th 2007 1:10 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by Duncan Roberts (Post 5313353)
I do know for a fact that that 7 isn't all the Americans in the battle of britain, there was at least 1 more.
So 8 out of 2,927 then :p

JacknJill Sep 14th 2007 1:12 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by Triumphrob (Post 5313346)
YEAH, I just want some bitchy comebacks............ A few are good so far
Someone said earlier, "If it wasn't for the British you would be speaking Spanish."
I told someone that the other day, and then said, "Oh, my mistake you already are".

Pony Sep 14th 2007 1:15 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Yeah, we British have no atrocities in our past.

After the war, we were good to our word to all the other countries that helped us out - good ole Great Britain the last bastion of decency :rolleyes:







Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP (Post 5313333)
Perhaps you're not familiar with the pogroms? Depending upon the source, it is known that Stalin killed anywhere between 2 and 20 million people before the war even began.

Don't defend the bastard. He was as bad as Hitler, and on a par with Pol Pot. There is nothing noble whatsoever about how they treated their own people.

elfman Sep 14th 2007 1:15 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by Duncan Roberts (Post 5313353)
I do know a little about Billy Fiske, I think the movie coming out is about him. He is only one of the Americans who took part in the Battle of Britain but gets the most press because he was an Olympic gold medalist and the first American to die in world war 2.
the wikipedia entry says he was the first American pilot to die in world war 2 - without doing exhaustive (or indeed any) research I suspect he wasn't the first American fullstop: I think there might have been others before him. For example, I think it's possible that some American merchant seamen went down on ships sunk by U-boats earlier in the war.

cindyabs Sep 14th 2007 1:17 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by dunroving (Post 5312652)
You could try "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries" :rofl:
Nah, that's been done.:sneaky:

Duncan Roberts Sep 14th 2007 1:22 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by elfman (Post 5313370)
the wikipedia entry says he was the first American pilot to die in world war 2 - without doing exhaustive (or indeed any) research I suspect he wasn't the first American fullstop: I think there might have been others before him. For example, I think it's possible that some American merchant seamen went down on ships sunk by U-boats earlier in the war.
Could be. I thought I read that he was the first hence the small memorial at St Paul's. It may well be he was the first American pilot to be killed.

cindyabs Sep 14th 2007 1:24 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by neil (Post 5312667)
"Perhaps if you remembered what it was you did back then you might be able to finish some more wars"

Edit - maybe add on the end "or did you just get lucky".
As a daughter of a WWII vet ,IF that were said to me with no provocation on my part, I'd probably deck the commentator.

Thydney Sep 14th 2007 1:29 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP (Post 5312593)
I'm not surprised that they haven't heard of it, but be that as it may, I'd say that it's debatable that the Battle of Britain affected the actual outcome of the war, i.e. the Germans losing.

If you believe that the Germans could have been defeated solely by the Soviets (as I do), then no, I'd say that the Battle of Britain was certainly a turning point for the western Allies, but for the Germans, the outcome was the same, it was just a question who would have defeated them, and how long it would have taken. (Surely, the war would have lasted a lot longer without either the Soviets or the Americans participating.)

In my mind, the definitive turning points in Europe were El Alamein, Stalingrad and Normandy. The Allied bombing campaign wasn't a turning point per se, but it caused the Germans enough destruction and diverted resources to affect their ability to carry on.
Bull shit I really think you miss the point it was a victory and as such caused a postponement of the invasion at a time when Britain was on it's knees and was there for the taking. Normandy wasn't a turning point the war was turning long before then. As for the Pacific ffs we fought in Burma and the Commonwealth held the japs advance in PNG, you sound like a bloody yank. Yes they could have won a war on their own but would they have? Both the japs and gerrys declared war on the yanks not vice versa

lisag8070 Sep 14th 2007 1:45 pm
Re: Help wanted WW2!
 
or you could say,

just remember where you all came from, your decendants from all the religous nuts (puritans, the military arm of the cathlic church) that were kicked out of England...


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