execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Dec 13th 2005, 1:41 pm
#76
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by CarlM
I dont 'keep putting words in peoples mouths', I asked a question - You should try and read more carefully next time.
If its "wrong that people are being found guilty of something they didnt do, and are condemned for it" then how can the death penalty be justified? Its not a different issue, its the entire issue. If there was 100% guarantee everyone on death row was guilty then fair enough - but there can never be.
If its "wrong that people are being found guilty of something they didnt do, and are condemned for it" then how can the death penalty be justified? Its not a different issue, its the entire issue. If there was 100% guarantee everyone on death row was guilty then fair enough - but there can never be.
Incidently, the death penalty is not simply about punishment. Only a religious person would consider death a punishment since if there is no life after death how are you to know you are being punished? It is also about retribuition for the victims and society and to ensure that that particular criminal wont be furthering their career.
Dec 13th 2005, 1:45 pm
#77
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by Angry White Pyjamas
It is also about retribuition for the victims and society and to ensure that that particular criminal wont be furthering their career.
Dec 13th 2005, 1:45 pm
#78
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,750
Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by CarlM
I dont 'keep putting words in peoples mouths', I asked a question - You should try and read more carefully next time.
If its "wrong that people are being found guilty of something they didnt do, and are condemned for it" then how can the death penalty be justified? Its not a different issue, its the entire issue. If there was 100% guarantee everyone on death row was guilty then fair enough - but there can never be.
If its "wrong that people are being found guilty of something they didnt do, and are condemned for it" then how can the death penalty be justified? Its not a different issue, its the entire issue. If there was 100% guarantee everyone on death row was guilty then fair enough - but there can never be.
Aye cap'n
One man's question is anothers putting words in their mouth 
I have to disagree with all of that. Its like the gun control issue. Its not the gun (or the penalty) but the human "error" that needs to be eliminated.
Dec 13th 2005, 1:47 pm
#79
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,750
Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by AmerLisa
Not that I don't think this person deserved the death penalty. But can't retribution, etc, be acheived by life in prison without parole?
Well that person still gets to live and experience things and learn and see his family, where as the victim stays dead. It doesnt seem like a fair swap to me.
I'm sure we'd all hate prison, but career criminals may adjust quite well and enjoy the free board and lodgings.
Dec 13th 2005, 1:50 pm
#80
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by Chorlton
I have to disagree with all of that. Its like the gun control issue. Its not the gun (or the penalty) but the human "error" that needs to be eliminated.
Although AWP does make the point tht these criminals aren't put to death the next day like some other countries.
Dec 13th 2005, 1:51 pm
#81
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by AmerLisa
Not that I don't think this person deserved the death penalty. But can't retribution, etc, be acheived by life in prison without parole?
It would be great of prison could be used to actually reform its inmates, however for some there is no chance of real reform no matter what show they put on. Like a caged animal is still wild at heart these people will always never have the same mental brakes we have.
Last edited by Angry White Pyjamas; Dec 13th 2005 at 1:54 pm.
Dec 13th 2005, 1:53 pm
#82
strangely floppy..
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Posts: 1,719
Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by Chorlton
Aye cap'n One man's question is anothers putting words in their mouth
I have to disagree with all of that. Its like the gun control issue. Its not the gun (or the penalty) but the human "error" that needs to be eliminated.
One man's question is anothers putting words in their mouth I have to disagree with all of that. Its like the gun control issue. Its not the gun (or the penalty) but the human "error" that needs to be eliminated.
The point you disagree with me on is actually the point that i was making - as long as there is human error (and there always will be), it cant be justified! Im not about to debate gun control with a Texan! :scared:
Dec 13th 2005, 2:27 pm
#83
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,750
Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by CarlM
Ok, me salty seaman(!), ill give you that..
The point you disagree with me on is actually the point that i was making - as long as there is human error (and there always will be), it cant be justified! Im not about to debate gun control with a Texan! :scared:
The point you disagree with me on is actually the point that i was making - as long as there is human error (and there always will be), it cant be justified! Im not about to debate gun control with a Texan! :scared:
You take that "texan" crap back! I'm just passing through (thats what I keep telling myself).
I'd like to think we are clever enough to figure out a way of determining guilt without any doubt, especially where the death penalty is involved. What if it was only available in cases where there is some irrefutable evidence, like CCTV footage or a solid eyewitness? I see the points against, but I can't be comfortable with letting killers live.
Dec 13th 2005, 2:51 pm
#84
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
But until we get a 100% correct conviction rate, shouldn't we withdraw the death penalty?
Although AWP does make the point tht these criminals aren't put to death the next day like some other countries.
Although AWP does make the point tht these criminals aren't put to death the next day like some other countries.
Justice delayed is justice forgone.
Just wonder how much this 25 year charade cost? Must keep quite a few lawyers in the comfort they have grown accustomed to, or could have built a few hospitals.
Dec 13th 2005, 2:55 pm
#85
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by rincewind
I wish people would get off their moral high-horses and spare a thought for these people rather than a killer that deserves all he gets.
There are several perspectives to any punishment: effect on victim and their family, effect on the "guilty" party, and effect on society. I know that many victims' families feel a sense of closure or justice after an execution, but many do not, and some have asked that their loved one's killer be spared execution.
Whose perspective comes first? If a victim's family asks that a killer's life be spared, shouldn't it be, if that's who we're executing the killer for?
Dec 13th 2005, 3:18 pm
#86
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Never was a chance that he would get clemency from Arnie, the Austrian prick is wanting to run for the whitehouse after all.
I for one hope they never change the law to allow him to do so, Austrians famously have a bad track record at running other countries. Not only that could you imagine some of the people on here who would run for President ?
I for one hope they never change the law to allow him to do so, Austrians famously have a bad track record at running other countries. Not only that could you imagine some of the people on here who would run for President ?
Dec 13th 2005, 3:29 pm
#87
You Are All Diseased
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by snowbunny
I know that many victims' families feel a sense of closure or justice after an execution, but many do not, and some have asked that their loved one's killer be spared execution.
Dec 13th 2005, 3:31 pm
#88
Thinking about it
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by doctor scrumpy
Never was a chance that he would get clemency from Arnie, the Austrian prick is wanting to run for the whitehouse after all.
I for one hope they never change the law to allow him to do so, Austrians famously have a bad track record at running other countries. Not only that could you imagine some of the people on here who would run for President ?
I for one hope they never change the law to allow him to do so, Austrians famously have a bad track record at running other countries. Not only that could you imagine some of the people on here who would run for President ?
He applied the rules as they should have been applied, end of story. Why is there any need to turn this into a political or racial issue (though you are not guilty of the later) ??
Dec 13th 2005, 3:37 pm
#89
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by rincewind
Not true of all in this case.
However, even in the case where there has been a single murder, and the victim's family has unanimously asked that the killer not be executed, the state will usually execute anyway, saying that it must protect society.
Dec 13th 2005, 3:39 pm
#90
You Are All Diseased
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Re: execution of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams..
Originally Posted by snowbunny
However, even in the case where there has been a single murder, and the victim's family has unanimously asked that the killer not be executed, the state will usually execute anyway, saying that it must protect society.
