Originally Posted by snowbunny

But they really haven't.

We were forced to do away with affirmative action oh, ten years ago, due to a lawsuit by white students who had higher test scores than a few black students, but the black students were admitted to the University of Texas Law School under affirmative action.

In one stroke all educational affirmative action was taken away. The numbers of minority students in both the undergraduate and graduate universities fell tremendously.

And the existing laws against discrimination in the workplace ARE NOT followed. I had one boss (NOT at my current job) tell me that he only hired women because HR forced him to do it. This same man was later sued by another woman claiming discrimination, and yet despite a pattern of these remarks, was cleared. As one of only a few women in this workplace, I was forced to testify to an EEOC officer behind closed doors, and even though no one knew what I said, AND the boss was cleared, AND I had no choice whether to testify, some of the guys treated me resentfully over the matter for years.

Originally Posted by KJ2007

This reminds me of a concept that is commonly known in hiring or interviewing (both for jobs, and for research - what I do) known as "similar to me" bias. The idea is that you are inherently drawn to people who are like you - whether this be in physical appearance, personality, age, gender, etc. There's a lot of truth to it. Perhaps you "click" with this person due to commonalities, or you see a bit of yourselves in them. For many, this is not a conscious means of selection.

In hiring this is risky because it can result in a homogenous workforce - and diversity of opinion can lead to innovation, and to a stronger organization. After all - if you are serving or selling to an entire population, but represent only a segment of that population - will you be as effective? I doubt it.

The old boys club is alive and well. Men often don't realize this - I've struggled to get my husband to understand it. It may be poker nights with the guys, playing golf during a work outing, talking sports at the watercooler. Am I saying this should cease? Not at all! But it's how networking takes place, relationships form, and rapport that results in career advancement can be born. It links back to the idea of "similar to me" bias that can squeeze out diversity, whether it be due to the color of one's skin, one's nationality, economic background, etc.

Affirmative action is an attempt to correct this. Is it perfect? I'm not saying it is - but I do think some sort of encouragement to employers, colleges, etc. to embrace the diversity of the larger populous is important. Without it, advances could perhaps be made, but at a much slower rate than they would be otherwise.

We're all guilty of "similar to me" bias. Think of your own experience for a moment. Do you favor someone because you have common interests with them? Because you share a style of dress? Political beliefs? Because they are British, or American, or from Australia? That doesn't make others less valid, I'm sure most of us would agree - but without programs to encourage diversity, homogeneous environments can be more comfortable, and things would continue as they were.

My husband and I had an eye-opening experience a few years ago. We were looking for something to do on a Saturday night, and spotted a club where music was playing. We were greeted at the door quite enthusiastically "So glad to see you, you are welcome here" we were told. I remember thinking, how odd, why wouldn't we be? Walking in - we were the only white people in the club. We were treated well, and listened to a wonderful jazz performer, and enjoyed ourselves. I remember feeling like I glowed in the dark - wishing my sweater had long sleeves so perhaps I wouldn't stick out so much. How crazy is that? It was a taste, albeit a small one in a friendly setting, of being a minority - something foreign to most of us.

Originally Posted by another bloody yank

You worked in a place full of dinosaur idiots.

Originally Posted by snowbunny

The dinosaurs are very much alive in professions where women are in the minority. So many decisions are made when upper management and first-line workers are playing racquetball together, or at Dave and Busters, or in the restroom, and I can tell you that women aren't present.

When I'd work in the lab, where the guys were less likely to have a college degree, I faced even more discrimination until I proved that I could hold my own, crawl around under the floors even when 8 months pregnant, and solder. I did more of my own lab support than most of the guys did, but I had to do it to gain respect.

And with respect to Hopwood, the no-affirmative-action law:

http://academic.udayton.edu/thewhite...legaled11e.htm

Here at UT at the undergrad level, in a city that's fairly liberal, we have managed to retain minority students by privately funding scholarships that can take race into consideration. At A&M, which is a much more conservative university, the fall in undergraduate rates is much more pronounced.

Originally Posted by Sally

I can see both sides of the AA argument, but we don't unfortunately live in a true meritocracy. I'm sure everyone knows of people who got jobs etc by string-pulling rather than true merit.

Originally Posted by snowbunny

The dinosaurs are very much alive in professions where women are in the minority. So many decisions are made when upper management and first-line workers are playing racquetball together, or at Dave and Busters, or in the restroom, and I can tell you that women aren't present.

When I'd work in the lab, where the guys were less likely to have a college degree, I faced even more discrimination until I proved that I could hold my own, crawl around under the floors even when 8 months pregnant, and solder. I did more of my own lab support than most of the guys did, but I had to do it to gain respect.

And with respect to Hopwood, the no-affirmative-action law:

http://academic.udayton.edu/thewhite...legaled11e.htm

Here at UT at the undergrad level, in a city that's fairly liberal, we have managed to retain minority students by privately funding scholarships that can take race into consideration. At A&M, which is a much more conservative university, the fall in undergraduate rates is much more pronounced.

Originally Posted by anotherlimey

Seems to me the problems start way before university.

Originally Posted by YankeemovingAbroad

I can't imagine a BNP type party ever being allowed to influence political power in American politics like it does in Great Britain in 2007.Just a couple years ago France experienced national race riots in most every large french city.Austria,Germany and Denmark have voted into office local and national leaders that would make jealous a KKK member. I'm aware the UK is more progressive than many European countries,yet you see very few faces of color in positions of power.

What does that say about ethnic diversity and it's acceptance by Europeans? Do you see mix ethnic couples in Europe as often as you would here in America?I've been told by brits that racism is pretty bad even in Australia on the other side of the globe. Hope you don't attack me for asking these questions.Just trying to understand if people in Europe are more socially accepting of "people" regardless of ethnicity compared to America.And I'm not talking about in the work place.I'm speaking in terms of breaking bread together,dating,attending church or place of worship,marriage and children.Has Europe turned that corner yet in their evolution?

Thank You