Does this suck or what
Jun 3rd 2004, 9:46 pm
#31
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Originally posted by Polaris_x
On the subject of soldiers not being allowed to leave at the end of their EAOS, I think it's fair. I've served, and I'm well aware that when you VOLUNTEER (nobody twists your arm) to join the military, you're not joining a basket weaving community. You're joining a force that's main function is to kill, be killed, and generally be used as a pawn by politicians. In addition to that, the U.S. Constitution no longer applies to you. Instead, you're governed by the laws of the USMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). You are a tool. A piece of property. I learned this once, as I took it upon myself to get a nasty sunburn. After getting Captains Mass (a diciplinary thing), and having $500 removed from my pay on the charge of "defacing government property" (me), it was obvious what a soldier's/marine's/airman's/sailor's roll is. We are a fighting too.
The "stop loss" measure is simply another tool that the government can, and will use. These people knew the roll and responsibility BEFORE going in. I hope they can see their family soon, but they are not going to get an ounce of sorrow because they think they didn't know the rules.
On the subject of America being the land of the free, I have mixed feelings. We are free. We have the freedom to fail and to succeed. In other countries (like England), you don't have the freedom to fail. You know that good 'ole Mamma Government will let you suck titty if you fall, and you can always leach off the dole. You gave up your freedoms for security (gun rights). You gave up your freedom to travel (by allowing your government to tax you to death on fuel). Yes, you can travel to Cuba. Big deal. There's only about 2.5 million other destinations on my list ABOVE Cuba that I will never see anyway. As for the EEC member state comment, I find it funny. I can live anywhere from California to Maine, from Florida to Oregon, and even Alaska or Hawaii. You're splitting hairs here. I think the land mass between the two are relatively equal, and each state in the U.S. is similar, but have separate laws.
On the subject of soldiers not being allowed to leave at the end of their EAOS, I think it's fair. I've served, and I'm well aware that when you VOLUNTEER (nobody twists your arm) to join the military, you're not joining a basket weaving community. You're joining a force that's main function is to kill, be killed, and generally be used as a pawn by politicians. In addition to that, the U.S. Constitution no longer applies to you. Instead, you're governed by the laws of the USMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). You are a tool. A piece of property. I learned this once, as I took it upon myself to get a nasty sunburn. After getting Captains Mass (a diciplinary thing), and having $500 removed from my pay on the charge of "defacing government property" (me), it was obvious what a soldier's/marine's/airman's/sailor's roll is. We are a fighting too.
The "stop loss" measure is simply another tool that the government can, and will use. These people knew the roll and responsibility BEFORE going in. I hope they can see their family soon, but they are not going to get an ounce of sorrow because they think they didn't know the rules.
On the subject of America being the land of the free, I have mixed feelings. We are free. We have the freedom to fail and to succeed. In other countries (like England), you don't have the freedom to fail. You know that good 'ole Mamma Government will let you suck titty if you fall, and you can always leach off the dole. You gave up your freedoms for security (gun rights). You gave up your freedom to travel (by allowing your government to tax you to death on fuel). Yes, you can travel to Cuba. Big deal. There's only about 2.5 million other destinations on my list ABOVE Cuba that I will never see anyway. As for the EEC member state comment, I find it funny. I can live anywhere from California to Maine, from Florida to Oregon, and even Alaska or Hawaii. You're splitting hairs here. I think the land mass between the two are relatively equal, and each state in the U.S. is similar, but have separate laws.
I really think dubya f--cked up big time by starting this war. We were not in fear of losing our freedom to anyone, we were not being invaded, at least not the last time I looked out my window. This war is a joke. Just take a look at Chalabi. What does that tell you about this presidents' intentions. He wanted to put him in as president of Iraq. This a man who has lived in the USA since 1952 and has been indicted for bank fraud in Jordan, he is also a close friend of Rummy and Wolfie, is that democratic? Now they are saying on tv that if he sets foot on US soil he will be arrested.
As for being able to get the dole in UK, well you have the same system here in the US. I was laid off from work and am collecting dole. Damned right I am claiming it, I paid for it. Also the claim that giving up security and freedom by giving up gun rights is just plain stupid. I think that is the kind of freedom most Brits can live with. No fear of some nutter drunk on a Saturday nite blowing you away for some frivolous reason.
I guess you have never travelled through Europe judging by your comparison to living anywhere in the US as opposed to living anywhere in Europe. Europe is vastly different from country to country, in my opinion (and I have travelled to almost every State), the US states are all pretty much alike except for the weather. The fact that all the States have different laws has alwayse seemed assinine to me, it is the same country, shouldn't each State have the same laws?
Rant over
Jun 3rd 2004, 9:59 pm
#32
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Originally posted by jambo_2004
This is a massive freedom in my mind. Americans can only really live in their own nation...
This is a massive freedom in my mind. Americans can only really live in their own nation...
Jun 3rd 2004, 10:09 pm
#33
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Originally posted by cathy22w
To many Americans, there IS only one nation. Patriotism is so great here that many would not dream of holidaying anywhere else, let alone live or work.
To many Americans, there IS only one nation. Patriotism is so great here that many would not dream of holidaying anywhere else, let alone live or work.
Jun 3rd 2004, 10:13 pm
#34
Not dead yet
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: In a world of my own where I know everyone
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Originally posted by Polaris_x
You gave up your freedoms for security (gun rights).
You gave up your freedoms for security (gun rights).
Jun 3rd 2004, 10:29 pm
#35
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Originally posted by Thydney
I agree with most of what you say but in the UK no one has or ever had the right to bear arms and as such we can't have given them away. Yes we have strict gun laws but we also have less murders than the US even on a pro rata basis.
I agree with most of what you say but in the UK no one has or ever had the right to bear arms and as such we can't have given them away. Yes we have strict gun laws but we also have less murders than the US even on a pro rata basis.
Jun 3rd 2004, 10:53 pm
#36
"Where are the shovels?"
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 568
Originally posted by Chopper-Chris
you havin a laugh mate?
you must be Scottish or Welsh I suppose, with that chip on your shoulder about the countries terminology...get over it.
UK/England who cares, we all knew what was meant
you havin a laugh mate?
you must be Scottish or Welsh I suppose, with that chip on your shoulder about the countries terminology...get over it.
UK/England who cares, we all knew what was meant
The discussion was about the UK and not just England, it has bugger all to do with terminology, just simple observation before posting comments...it's a easy enough concept to master.
Now piss off budgie
Jun 3rd 2004, 10:54 pm
#37
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Originally posted by jambo_2004
Freedom of choice is a good thing. However I think freedom from the worry that you might die if you catch a treatable disease is something Brits also benefit from.
I think the point about the EU is that Brits can choose to walk into 25 countries and live and work without much hassle. This is a massive freedom in my mind. Americans can only really live in their own nation...well I suppose Canada is an option but they are making this difficult to do since 911.
It's a welfare state, i.e it cares whether it's poorer citizens live or die. Yes some people abuse the system to no ends but I beleive Blair and co are dealing with this.
Freedom of choice is a good thing. However I think freedom from the worry that you might die if you catch a treatable disease is something Brits also benefit from.
I think the point about the EU is that Brits can choose to walk into 25 countries and live and work without much hassle. This is a massive freedom in my mind. Americans can only really live in their own nation...well I suppose Canada is an option but they are making this difficult to do since 911.
It's a welfare state, i.e it cares whether it's poorer citizens live or die. Yes some people abuse the system to no ends but I beleive Blair and co are dealing with this.
It's true, no-one dies from lack of medical insurance cover here. I heard on the radio an American lady trourist who was heavily pregnant collapsed in Oxford Street, London, and taken to hospital where she was delivered of her baby and received such excellent treatment, at no cost whatsover to her self, that she has written a book about that experience. She had nothing but praise for the doctors and nurses at that London hospital. Her book was reviewed on BBC Radio Five Live but I can't remember it's title or the name of the American lady author concerned.
Cheers
Jun 3rd 2004, 10:55 pm
#38
"Where are the shovels?"
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 568
Originally posted by ElsieTheMaid
Well....being that I'm from England, I personalized it. Didn't mean to offend anyone
Well....being that I'm from England, I personalized it. Didn't mean to offend anyone
Jun 3rd 2004, 11:31 pm
#39
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Joined: Apr 2003
Location: In the heart of the Ozarks
Posts: 10,216
Originally posted by Thydney
I agree with most of what you say but in the UK no one has or ever had the right to bear arms and as such we can't have given them away. Yes we have strict gun laws but we also have less murders than the US even on a pro rata basis.
I agree with most of what you say but in the UK no one has or ever had the right to bear arms and as such we can't have given them away. Yes we have strict gun laws but we also have less murders than the US even on a pro rata basis.
...Controls, nonetheless, began in 1903, with the Pistols Act, which required the production of a Game or Gun Licence before buying certain kinds of pistol. In the absence of any crime wave, supporters of the Bill were reduced to giving anecdotal evidence of shooting incidents involving children.[19] But it was not seen as controversial, and had an easy passage.
Next came the Firearms Act of 1920. Still, the use of guns in crime was almost insignificant: between 1911 and 1917, there were 170 instance in London, or an annual average of 24.[20] But, with civil war in Ireland, fears in England of a Bolshevistt coup, and the prospect of millions of demobilised weapons coming onto the home market, it was agreed that something ought to be done. Precedent sanctioned temporary measures. The Government chose permanent ones; and its Act was substantially the modern scheme of control.
(snipped from : http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...gland+uk&hl=en)
Jun 3rd 2004, 11:39 pm
#40
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Originally posted by effi
Just take a look at Chalabi. What does that tell you about this presidents' intentions. He wanted to put him in as president of Iraq. This a man who has lived in the USA since 1952 and has been indicted for bank fraud in Jordan, he is also a close friend of Rummy and Wolfie, is that democratic? Now they are saying on tv that if he sets foot on US soil he will be arrested.
Just take a look at Chalabi. What does that tell you about this presidents' intentions. He wanted to put him in as president of Iraq. This a man who has lived in the USA since 1952 and has been indicted for bank fraud in Jordan, he is also a close friend of Rummy and Wolfie, is that democratic? Now they are saying on tv that if he sets foot on US soil he will be arrested.
actually, Chalabi lived in London:
"...Chalabi, 59, is a Savile Row Shiite who has spent much more time in London than in Baghdad. His career as a banker has been a trail of lawsuits and investigations (and one conviction for fraud, in absentia by a military court, in Jordan; Chalabi says he was framed by Saddam Hussein)...."
(snipped from: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5040831/)
Jun 3rd 2004, 11:51 pm
#41
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Originally posted by effi
...the US states are all pretty much alike except for the weather. The fact that all the States have different laws has alwayse seemed assinine to me, it is the same country, shouldn't each State have the same laws?
Rant over
...the US states are all pretty much alike except for the weather. The fact that all the States have different laws has alwayse seemed assinine to me, it is the same country, shouldn't each State have the same laws?
Rant over
Amendment X;
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
Jun 4th 2004, 12:01 am
#42
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
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Originally posted by ironporer
The original vision of the founding fathers was to have one common national government to regulate sch things as interstate commerce, defense and foreign policy. It has since then gone astray- and become the dominant force. One could say the FF's idea was closer to what the EU was intended to be. The tenth ammendment clearly outlines this, but seems to have been forgotten:
Amendment X;
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
The original vision of the founding fathers was to have one common national government to regulate sch things as interstate commerce, defense and foreign policy. It has since then gone astray- and become the dominant force. One could say the FF's idea was closer to what the EU was intended to be. The tenth ammendment clearly outlines this, but seems to have been forgotten:
Amendment X;
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
Is this related to that business of taking people across State lines for immoral purposes? I always rather fancied that actually.
Jun 4th 2004, 12:41 am
#43
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Originally posted by Lion in Winter
Is this related to that business of taking people across State lines for immoral purposes? I always rather fancied that actually.
Is this related to that business of taking people across State lines for immoral purposes? I always rather fancied that actually.
I may be mistaken, but I believe that is a FEDERAL law, initiated due to the proximity of many of the New England States where laws differed as to the legality of eloping with the other farmer's daughter to marry 5 miles away in another state.
Jun 4th 2004, 1:31 am
#44
"Where are the shovels?"
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 568
Chuck Berry knows all about that
Jun 4th 2004, 1:43 am
#45
dealing with it
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Originally posted by jambo_2004
Yes I have a chip on my shoulder regarding morons.
The discussion was about the UK and not just England, it has bugger all to do with terminology, just simple observation before posting comments...it's a easy enough concept to master.
Now piss off budgie
Yes I have a chip on my shoulder regarding morons.
The discussion was about the UK and not just England, it has bugger all to do with terminology, just simple observation before posting comments...it's a easy enough concept to master.
Now piss off budgie
I don't have any problem with anyone referring to one country (especially when its obvious that they are really referring to all four) but too many times I have heard Scottish, Welsh, Irish and English nationalists complaining about the fact that we are joined...and that find it hard to accept that we are joined for a very good reason.
It would be to the detrement of all four if we truly decided to go our own ways. In order to make the UK a better place, we need to respect the fact that we have always and will always do better remaining the 'United' Kingdom we are.
Anyway, all this is totally irrelevant to the actual debate, so I'm done!