JAJ

Would cause people a lot of problems if it was scrapped, especially for children born in countries with poor standards of birth registration or documents not in English.

Ideally a passport application would provide a permanent record and to an extent it does, but the problem is that the Passport Office does not want to look through its archives if someone only has an old passport with no other supporting documentation.

Bottom line is that if parents documents are lost, a person who has a consular birth certificate will find it easier to get a new passport than someone who hasn't gone one. You obviously don't think that insurance is worth the cost, but others may differ. I have seen too many situations where people cannot prove their status because parents are dead or estranged and refuse to release documents.

JAJ

It's unclear what you meant when you wrote. But to be precise - a paternity test is not needed for proving one is the father for British nationality purposes.

MarylandNed

Well, that's not the view of the UK authorities. Read what I posted earlier. They state that there is absolutely no requirement for consular birth registration and that a consular birth certificate does not replace a local birth certificate (which can be translated into English if necessary).

You can already renew your UK passport using just your previous UK passport. Also, why should passport records be any less secure and available than consular birth registration records? If anything, the opposite should be true.

Yes, others may feel it's worthwhile - but I don't. My insurance is the collection of multiple birth and marriage certificates which in total have cost me much less than a single consular birth registration and certificate. Also, even in the very unlikely case that ALL of these were somehow lost or destroyed, I don't see access to replacements being denied in the UK any time soon.

JAJ

Passport Office says a consular birth certificate evidences British nationality, a foreign one does not.
http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/files/ips/...TO_PUBLISH.pdf



Not if it's lost or stolen.

Should be, perhaps - but isn't. Birth registries are in the business of handling old records and issue copies of documents all the time.
The Passport Office does not want to do this.
http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/files/ips/...-_Searches.pdf

It is the applicant’s responsibility to provide us with relevant documents to enable us to issue a passport. Searches of our historic records should not be made instead of requesting the necessary documents for status purposes. A status search should only be requested in very exceptional circumstances.


Not until UK law changes, but if you look at what has happened in most Australian states (Victoria is worst) it is almost impossible to get a parent's birth certificate without the parent's consent or a court order.

MarylandNed

This keeps being dragged up but Australia is not the UK.

MarylandNed

Well, you can't have it both ways.

Mummy in the foothills

Holy Crap Ned can't you just agree to disagree. You keep flogging that dead horse for christ sake.

Jist of it is, many feel registration and a certificate is needed, you don't Oh well!

MarylandNed

So I'm flogging the dead horse but proponents of consular birth registration are not? Strange that.

I'm actually more in line with what the official UK authorties' web sites are saying - consular birth registration is totally unnecessary and you don't need it to prove your UK citizenship.

It amazes me that consular birth registration records are somehow trusted completely and somehow viewed as being totally immune to record keeping problems or future rule/law changes (while passport records are somehow not). And because some law was passed in Australia, suddenly you shouldn't rely on being able to obtain your parents' UK(!) birth certificates in the future? What utter nonsense!

ian-mstm

Even though nobody asked, I'm going to offer my $0.02 worth here... I think someone (not me, of course, because I'm generally a pleasant fellow who likes to watch this sort of exchange) should muzzle the both of you! The two of you going back and forth on this ad nauseum puts me in mind of the same type of tedious exchange with Matt over the question of UPL.

MarylandNed... you probably won't understand the Matt/UPL reference... but I don't really care!

Ian

MarylandNed

I was talking to a lawyer friend of mine tonight and mentioned this whole debate. Here was the exchange as best as I can remember it:

Lawyer: "So if you're a UK citizen by descent (born abroad) you need your UK parent's birth certificate to get a passport if you don't have a consular birth certificate?"

Me: "Yep"

Lawyer: "And you need your UK parent's birth certificate to get a consular birth certificate anyway"

Me: "Yep"

Lawyer: "And the UK government is currently stating that you don't need consular birth registration."

Me: "Yep"

Lawyer: "And people are worried that the UK government might at some point in the future stop UK citizens by descent from obtaining their UK parent's birth certificate?"

Me: "Yep"

Lawyer: "But that's a legal catch-22. You can't require that UK citizens by descent need their parent's birth certificate to prove UK citizenship and at the same time deny them the right to obtain those birth certificates. That wouldn't survive the first legal challenge."

Do you get it now folks?

fatbrit

I've never not got you.

Bluegrass Lass

BS. Governments do crap all the time that don't make sense to the common people, and do you think they really think through the ramifications of those laws that they put in place? Do you think they care if they put you in a catch-22? The gov't can do whatever the heck it wants.

ian-mstm

Umm... you seem to be taking this whole thing personally. It seems to irritate you that no matter how hard you try, you can't dissuade JAJ from his belt and braces approach? Do you have some sort of vested interest in being right?

Ian

MarylandNed

As I've said before, it's a free country and anyone can use consular birth registration if they so wish. But don't use scare tactics to encourage everyone else to do it - wasting their time and money. It's expensive and it's not necessary. Even the UK government states that it's not necessary!

READ WHAT THEY SAY! I didn't write this page:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-...tering-a-birth


One of the scare tactics being used is that in the future you MIGHT not be able to obtain your parent's UK birth certificate (apparently because some people in Australia have had trouble obtaining their Australian parent's birth certificate). This has not happened in the UK, there is no indication that it will ever happen in the UK and even if it did happen in the UK it would not survive the first legal challenge. Your aunt MIGHT grow testicles and suddenly become your uncle.

I've been accused of being a "cheapskate". I've been told that "insurance" isn't important to me. On the contrary, I have had the foresight to obtain multiple copies of birth and marriage certificates. These are much more useful than consular birth certificates - they have many more uses. I have obtained these for less than the cost of a single consular birth registration and certificate (which is currently a whopping $277!). Replacing a single consular birth certificate costs $104!

I will continue to balance the argument every time I see someone encouraging someone else to obtain a consular birth certificate. That's what a forum is for.

Sue

It appears there are those who feel that it is important to obtain a Consular Birth Certificate, and those who feel there is no need. As such this conversation is just going around in circles. So lets agree to disagree and move on.

Thanks

Thread closed.