Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
Aug 12th 2009, 2:36 pm
#16
I don't give a damn
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: In the arms of my family. Heaven...
Posts: 4,980
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
I wasnt aware it has been like this ofr years JG. But i guess we were gone a long time.
Aug 12th 2009, 2:39 pm
#17
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,040
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
Thanx Texas and JG. Yes, shes had more than her fair share of problems for a 2yr old, but fingers crossed we will get this sorted. Its very strange as after she has these seizures she is bright as a button!
I wasnt aware it has been like this ofr years JG. But i guess we were gone a long time.
I wasnt aware it has been like this ofr years JG. But i guess we were gone a long time.
Aug 12th 2009, 2:46 pm
#18
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
You mean every Western country except the US and South Africa.
Aug 12th 2009, 2:52 pm
#19
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Hinsdale, IL
Posts: 469
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
Hello there folks, I am a young man here in the states and if you havent heard our new president is looking to implement some sort of universal health care here. American health insurance companies are raising negative propraganda to flood our media. The following is a list of the negative effects of universal health care that are being pushed so heavily right now. Quite simply id like to know what someone living under this system feels about what they have.
Cons:
-lower quality of care for those who will be giving up their plans
-cost of taxes would sky rocket
-Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness
-Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility.
-Government-mandated procedures will likely reduce doctor flexibility and lead to poor patient care
-Healthy people who take care of themselves will have to pay for the burden of those who smoke, are obese, etc
-Loss of private practice options and possible reduced pay may dissuade many would-be doctors from pursuing the profession
-Malpractice lawsuit costs, which are already sky-high, could further explode since universal care may expose the government to legal liability, and the possibility to sue someone with deep pockets usually invites more lawsuits.
-Health care equipment, drugs, and services may end up being rationed by the government. In other words, politics, lifestyle of patients, and philosophical differences of those in power, could determine who gets what.
-Patients may be subjected to extremely long waits for treatment.
these last two seem to be the biggest hits to people..that care will deminsh, doctors will have their hands tied by the government and operations will take forever to have done.
I honestly hope there are some of you out there who can give a real insight to what its like to live in a country where health care is a standard not an option.
To give you an idea of how it currently works here for those who dont know.
85%-90% of the american populous have some sort of medical care, some already being government ran, i.e. health plans to cover the poorest population especially children. To have a plan to cover someone like myself to be relatively worry free i must pay 300$ a month, about half what i pay for my apartment. Even with that plan it usually takes me at least 2-4 hours if i have to go to an emergency room for anything less then a gunshot wound. But if im sick i can usually make an appointment to see my doctor the same day or next day with a $20 surcharge per visit. If I make an appointment to see my doctor about a broken bone i usually get to the radiology department that same day and know the results shortly after. If there is anything im missing i would really like to know what others currently under a universal health plan think of their plan. Btw for those 15%-10% who dont have government assistance or care will have to pay out of their pocket if they run into an emergency with the average cost of such a visit will run around $250,000 dollars. Most of these people are those health insurances know they will not make money off of, i.e. the old and the sick. Not to mention that even in my plan there are people whos only job is that when i do get seriously sick or injured then they will finely comb my entire policy for any loop holes to get out of their legal obligations to cover my cost and put them back on myself.
Cons:
-lower quality of care for those who will be giving up their plans
-cost of taxes would sky rocket
-Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness
-Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility.
-Government-mandated procedures will likely reduce doctor flexibility and lead to poor patient care
-Healthy people who take care of themselves will have to pay for the burden of those who smoke, are obese, etc
-Loss of private practice options and possible reduced pay may dissuade many would-be doctors from pursuing the profession
-Malpractice lawsuit costs, which are already sky-high, could further explode since universal care may expose the government to legal liability, and the possibility to sue someone with deep pockets usually invites more lawsuits.
-Health care equipment, drugs, and services may end up being rationed by the government. In other words, politics, lifestyle of patients, and philosophical differences of those in power, could determine who gets what.
-Patients may be subjected to extremely long waits for treatment.
these last two seem to be the biggest hits to people..that care will deminsh, doctors will have their hands tied by the government and operations will take forever to have done.
I honestly hope there are some of you out there who can give a real insight to what its like to live in a country where health care is a standard not an option.
To give you an idea of how it currently works here for those who dont know.
85%-90% of the american populous have some sort of medical care, some already being government ran, i.e. health plans to cover the poorest population especially children. To have a plan to cover someone like myself to be relatively worry free i must pay 300$ a month, about half what i pay for my apartment. Even with that plan it usually takes me at least 2-4 hours if i have to go to an emergency room for anything less then a gunshot wound. But if im sick i can usually make an appointment to see my doctor the same day or next day with a $20 surcharge per visit. If I make an appointment to see my doctor about a broken bone i usually get to the radiology department that same day and know the results shortly after. If there is anything im missing i would really like to know what others currently under a universal health plan think of their plan. Btw for those 15%-10% who dont have government assistance or care will have to pay out of their pocket if they run into an emergency with the average cost of such a visit will run around $250,000 dollars. Most of these people are those health insurances know they will not make money off of, i.e. the old and the sick. Not to mention that even in my plan there are people whos only job is that when i do get seriously sick or injured then they will finely comb my entire policy for any loop holes to get out of their legal obligations to cover my cost and put them back on myself.
-Health care equipment, drugs, and services may end up being rationed by the government. In other words, politics, lifestyle of patients, and philosophical differences of those in power, could determine who gets what.
-Patients may be subjected to extremely long waits for treatment
Health care equipment, drugs, and services are being rationed by health insurance companies. You want to see a specialist... you need prior authorization. A corporation will decide how long you get to stay in a hospital for a given procedure. Certain procedures are not covered by your insurance.
Regarding long waits...have you tried to see a specialist for say cardiac lipidology? A specialist in cholesterol management? Average wait is 6 months.
The big difference is that in the USA healthcare is a commodity to be sold, in the UK it is a right. Right now your healthcare (if you are insured) is regulated by an insurance company that decides what treatment and what drugs you get. This is done on the basis of maximizing profits for the corporation.
BIG question: What is different between corporate "rationing" vs. government "rationing"????
Aug 12th 2009, 2:55 pm
#20
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,414
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
True, we've had many talks about the perils of US health care.
If you want to know what UK NHS is like you best watch Michael Moores movie, it really is what nationalized health care is about in UK.
All the protesters over here (I'm in CA) have really bought into the rubbish being put about by the insurance companies who are worried about the bottom line.
I have worked as a nurse in UK and US. froma nurses point of view, US care really sucks unless you are pretty well off.
If you want to know what UK NHS is like you best watch Michael Moores movie, it really is what nationalized health care is about in UK.
All the protesters over here (I'm in CA) have really bought into the rubbish being put about by the insurance companies who are worried about the bottom line.
I have worked as a nurse in UK and US. froma nurses point of view, US care really sucks unless you are pretty well off.
Is it? I thought it was about healthcare in Cuba? Obviously, I didn't care to watch the movie.
Aug 12th 2009, 2:58 pm
#21
L2, GC, Surrey, OH, TX!
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Surrey to Dallas (via Ohio)!
Posts: 6,363
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
-Patients may be subjected to extremely long waits for treatment.
-Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness
in the nhs - i can make an appointment to see my doctor for anything 'urgent' usually the same day (anything non urgent within a few days). Anything that is an emergency (like a broken bone to use your example) would be seen by the emergency dept at the hospital within a few hours - no need to involve my doctor first. I had 2 kids in the UK and 1 in the US - I have never seen so much wasted money as the process in the US seemed to involve trying to prerssure me into tests for a zillion things that I had no indication of having 'just in case'.
Aug 12th 2009, 3:07 pm
#22
The Kwisatz Haderach
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: North Wales
Posts: 8,080
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
the UK part is pretty good, and what I remember as a nurse and a patient.
I also worked as a nurse in a private hospital in UK so have been around the block so to speak
Aug 12th 2009, 3:12 pm
#23
Who?
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Stepford
Posts: 3,098
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
We hardly use our insurance because generally we are quite healthy (touch wood). On the few occasions we have used it we always have a battle with the insurance company.
They challenge everything and claim it is not medically necessary.
I have never been able to find out exactly what our plan covers...the tiny details and the insurance company seem unable to tell me.
Health care is already rationed here and I am amazed you don't realise that.
Aug 12th 2009, 3:19 pm
#24
I'm off to find a spanner
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,867
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
I don't want to say the US healthcare system means big money but my wife was recently hospitalised for a while. The total bill for her stays is about $200,000. Yeah that is two hundred thousand. We have insurance and we are going to be out of pocket about $6,500.
I couldn't even imagine having a bill like that with no health insurance and a lot of people do.
I couldn't even imagine having a bill like that with no health insurance and a lot of people do.
Aug 12th 2009, 3:28 pm
#25
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Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Hinsdale, IL
Posts: 469
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
I don't want to say the US healthcare system means big money but my wife was recently hospitalised for a while. The total bill for her stays is about $200,000. Yeah that is two hundred thousand. We have insurance and we are going to be out of pocket about $6,500.
I couldn't even imagine having a bill like that with no health insurance and a lot of people do.
I couldn't even imagine having a bill like that with no health insurance and a lot of people do.
Aug 12th 2009, 3:29 pm
#26
I'm off to find a spanner
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,867
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
Aug 12th 2009, 3:31 pm
#27
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: My Old KY Home!
Posts: 6,498
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
I don't want to say the US healthcare system means big money but my wife was recently hospitalised for a while. The total bill for her stays is about $200,000. Yeah that is two hundred thousand. We have insurance and we are going to be out of pocket about $6,500.
I couldn't even imagine having a bill like that with no health insurance and a lot of people do.
I couldn't even imagine having a bill like that with no health insurance and a lot of people do.
A friend of my co-worker recently suffered a brain aneurism (sp?). Luckily, she was in the hospital when it occurred, and they were able to save her life. She has so far had 2 brain surgeries, and even with her insurance she still has to pay over $120k out of her pocket. She needs one more surgery which she estimates will bring her total out of pocket cost to $180k. So even having insurance means nothing when something catastrophic occurs.
The proposal to bring in some kind of 'insurance plan' will do nothing to help those that are too poor to actually use the insurance and will do nothing to prevent medical bankruptcies. We need healthcare that is 'free at the time of delivery', not some stupid insurance plan.
Btw, ConfusedYankee, I am a native US citizen, and I am seriously considering a move to the UK (w/my Brit husband) simply because of the state of healthcare in this country. I have a pre-existing condition that could flare up at any time and put us into bankruptcy. I refuse to live with this black cloud hanging over my head all the time stuck in a job that I can't stand. And before you ask, I'm an engineer with a high(ish) paying salary and excellent health insurance plan. But it's all an illusion. Having a high salary and health insurance does not mean a damn thing.
Healthcare is a right, and no company/investors should be making huge profits off of somebody's illness.
Which is pretty bad/sad when a large amount of people have a lifetime limit of $1mil on their insurance plan.
Last edited by Bluegrass Lass; Aug 12th 2009 at 3:34 pm.
Aug 12th 2009, 3:34 pm
#28
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,040
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
I don't want to say the US healthcare system means big money but my wife was recently hospitalised for a while. The total bill for her stays is about $200,000. Yeah that is two hundred thousand. We have insurance and we are going to be out of pocket about $6,500.
I couldn't even imagine having a bill like that with no health insurance and a lot of people do.
I couldn't even imagine having a bill like that with no health insurance and a lot of people do.
She now has 4 visits a day by social services...one to get her up, bathed, dressed and give her breakfast. The second arrives at lunchtime and gives her lunch....third in the evening to give her dinner. The final visit of the day is around 10/11 pm...this is to get her ready for bed and make sure she's in bed. She will have these visits while she continues to live in her own home.
Her family doctor pops in to see her every week...if she needs any tests the nurse comes to her home. If she needs to go to hospital the doctor arranges for an ambulance to collect her and return her home again. She takes approx 12 prescription meds per day...several times a day. The NHS arranges for her meds to be put into four blister packs (one for morning/lunchtime/evening/bedtime) for each day. When the social services ladies visit they make sure she takes the meds in the appropriate blister pack.
Cost to her $0.
Aug 12th 2009, 3:36 pm
#29
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Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Hinsdale, IL
Posts: 469
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
Sime, you are quite lucky that your insurance will cover even that much.
A friend of my co-worker recently suffered a brain aneurism (sp?). Luckily, she was in the hospital when it occurred, and they were able to save her life. She has so far had 2 brain surgeries, and even with her insurance she still has to pay over $120k out of her pocket. She needs one more surgery which she estimates will bring her total out of pocket cost to $180k. So even having insurance means nothing when something catastrophic occurs.
The proposal to bring in some kind of 'insurance plan' will do nothing to help those that are too poor to actually use the insurance and will do nothing to prevent medical bankruptcies. We need healthcare that is 'free at the time of delivery', not some stupid insurance plan.
Btw, ConfusedYankee, I am a native US citizen, and I am seriously considering a move to the UK (w/my Brit husband) simply because of the state of healthcare in this country. I have a pre-existing condition that could flare up at any time and put us into bankruptcy. I refuse to live with this black cloud hanging over my head all the time stuck in a job that I can't stand. And before you ask, I'm an engineer with a high(ish) paying salary and excellent health insurance plan. But it's all an illusion. Having a high salary and health insurance does not mean a damn thing.
Healthcare is a right, and no company/investors should be making huge profits off of somebody's illness.
Which is pretty bad/sad when a large amount of people have a lifetime limit of $1mil on their insurance plan.
A friend of my co-worker recently suffered a brain aneurism (sp?). Luckily, she was in the hospital when it occurred, and they were able to save her life. She has so far had 2 brain surgeries, and even with her insurance she still has to pay over $120k out of her pocket. She needs one more surgery which she estimates will bring her total out of pocket cost to $180k. So even having insurance means nothing when something catastrophic occurs.
The proposal to bring in some kind of 'insurance plan' will do nothing to help those that are too poor to actually use the insurance and will do nothing to prevent medical bankruptcies. We need healthcare that is 'free at the time of delivery', not some stupid insurance plan.
Btw, ConfusedYankee, I am a native US citizen, and I am seriously considering a move to the UK (w/my Brit husband) simply because of the state of healthcare in this country. I have a pre-existing condition that could flare up at any time and put us into bankruptcy. I refuse to live with this black cloud hanging over my head all the time stuck in a job that I can't stand. And before you ask, I'm an engineer with a high(ish) paying salary and excellent health insurance plan. But it's all an illusion. Having a high salary and health insurance does not mean a damn thing.
Healthcare is a right, and no company/investors should be making huge profits off of somebody's illness.
Which is pretty bad/sad when a large amount of people have a lifetime limit of $1mil on their insurance plan.
Aug 12th 2009, 3:38 pm
#30
I'm off to find a spanner
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,867
Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.
On the other side of the coin...my 89 yr old mum fell a few months ago and broke her hip. She had hip surgery and stayed in hospital about 4 weeks...from there she went to a rehabilitation home which was run by the same hospital for 6 weeks. While she was there social services arranged for someone to visit her home and make the necessary improvements needed for her to go back and live there.
She now has 4 visits a day by social services...one to get her up, bathed, dressed and give her breakfast. The second arrives at lunchtime and gives her lunch....third in the evening to give her dinner. The final visit of the day is around 10/11 pm...this is to get her ready for bed and make sure she's in bed. She will have these visits while she continues to live in her own home.
Her family doctor pops in to see her every week...if she needs any tests the nurse comes to her home. If she needs to go to hospital the doctor arranges for an ambulance to collect her and return her home again. She takes approx 12 prescription meds per day...several times a day. The NHS arranges for her meds to be put into four blister packs (one for morning/lunchtime/evening/bedtime) for each day. When the social services ladies visit they make sure she takes the meds in the appropriate blister pack.
Cost to her $0.
She now has 4 visits a day by social services...one to get her up, bathed, dressed and give her breakfast. The second arrives at lunchtime and gives her lunch....third in the evening to give her dinner. The final visit of the day is around 10/11 pm...this is to get her ready for bed and make sure she's in bed. She will have these visits while she continues to live in her own home.
Her family doctor pops in to see her every week...if she needs any tests the nurse comes to her home. If she needs to go to hospital the doctor arranges for an ambulance to collect her and return her home again. She takes approx 12 prescription meds per day...several times a day. The NHS arranges for her meds to be put into four blister packs (one for morning/lunchtime/evening/bedtime) for each day. When the social services ladies visit they make sure she takes the meds in the appropriate blister pack.
Cost to her $0.