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Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Old Aug 11th 2009, 8:58 pm
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Default Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Hello there folks, I am a young man here in the states and if you havent heard our new president is looking to implement some sort of universal health care here. American health insurance companies are raising negative propraganda to flood our media. The following is a list of the negative effects of universal health care that are being pushed so heavily right now. Quite simply id like to know what someone living under this system feels about what they have.
Cons:
-lower quality of care for those who will be giving up their plans
-cost of taxes would sky rocket
-Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness
-Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility.
-Government-mandated procedures will likely reduce doctor flexibility and lead to poor patient care
-Healthy people who take care of themselves will have to pay for the burden of those who smoke, are obese, etc
-Loss of private practice options and possible reduced pay may dissuade many would-be doctors from pursuing the profession
-Malpractice lawsuit costs, which are already sky-high, could further explode since universal care may expose the government to legal liability, and the possibility to sue someone with deep pockets usually invites more lawsuits.
-Health care equipment, drugs, and services may end up being rationed by the government. In other words, politics, lifestyle of patients, and philosophical differences of those in power, could determine who gets what.
-Patients may be subjected to extremely long waits for treatment
.

these last two seem to be the biggest hits to people..that care will deminsh, doctors will have their hands tied by the government and operations will take forever to have done.

I honestly hope there are some of you out there who can give a real insight to what its like to live in a country where health care is a standard not an option.

To give you an idea of how it currently works here for those who dont know.

85%-90% of the american populous have some sort of medical care, some already being government ran, i.e. health plans to cover the poorest population especially children. To have a plan to cover someone like myself to be relatively worry free i must pay 300$ a month, about half what i pay for my apartment. Even with that plan it usually takes me at least 2-4 hours if i have to go to an emergency room for anything less then a gunshot wound. But if im sick i can usually make an appointment to see my doctor the same day or next day with a $20 surcharge per visit. If I make an appointment to see my doctor about a broken bone i usually get to the radiology department that same day and know the results shortly after. If there is anything im missing i would really like to know what others currently under a universal health plan think of their plan. Btw for those 15%-10% who dont have government assistance or care will have to pay out of their pocket if they run into an emergency with the average cost of such a visit will run around $250,000 dollars. Most of these people are those health insurances know they will not make money off of, i.e. the old and the sick. Not to mention that even in my plan there are people whos only job is that when i do get seriously sick or injured then they will finely comb my entire policy for any loop holes to get out of their legal obligations to cover my cost and put them back on myself.

Last edited by confusedYankee; Aug 11th 2009 at 9:08 pm.
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Old Aug 11th 2009, 10:08 pm
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Exclamation Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

I'm not from the US, yet I'm really concerned of the direction both major political parties have been dragging America in.

I can not believe that the American people have allowed for there
constitution to be torn up in front of there eyes, to see there capitalist
foundations slowly dismembered over the past 100 years, bringing them to the
point of bankruptcy, slowly forced to adopt more and more to communist
ideals, whiles all the time being totally blinded to these fact by a media
long bought out.

Wake up America! your way of life is seriously under attack and it's not
from Iran or Iraq... if Obama had not introduced this bill then McCain would
have, Two parties one system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVh75ylAUXY

The bill should be torn up,
Restore the constitution and become the great nation you once where.

That should get em talking!
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Old Aug 11th 2009, 10:18 pm
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

<<<sigh>>>

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...acy+healthcare

And a quick search should bring up dozens of similar threads...
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 12:26 am
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Canada is being used as an example of the evils of government healthcare.

Here's some info


http://tiny.cc/tlIXa
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 12:53 am
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Look, the majority of developed countries have national health care. i don't see all those people desperate to convert to an American system. Whereas a whole lot of Americans would dearly love to have a national health care system.

'Nuff said,

Bev
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 2:30 am
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Originally Posted by Bevm
Look, the majority of developed countries have national health care. i don't see all those people desperate to convert to an American system. Whereas a whole lot of Americans would dearly love to have a national health care system.

'Nuff said,

Bev
What she said. Your healthcare system looks to me like a moneymaking scheme for insurance companies and doctors. Doctors in the UK don't go into medicine to become rich...they are reasonably well paid and enjoy a good standard of living but they train mostly because they are good at science subjects and they want to help people and not just push pieces of paper around in an office all day.
This tends to lead to better care because they are not seeing dollar signs above their patients' heads.

Your real problem though is malpractice insurance fees.....the large fees for that are driving the agenda..both in overtreatment(unnecessary invasive tests just in case) and higher fees to generate sufficient income to pay the fees/university student loan costs.

Obama has an uphill struggle because you really need to rip it all up and start again but that will never happen since there are too many vested interests so at best you will end up with a Government Insurance scheme for those unable to pay their own premiums....you will still have all those issues with pre-existing conditions for those who had paid in for years out of their own income.....at the end of the day...you are better off paying by way of income tax than in insurance plans because we all get old one day...and become high risk.

Yes the vested interests are scaremongering....don't think UK life expectancy is particularly any lower than in USA. Last time I looked our child mortality rates were better.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 4:31 am
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Confused Yankee....I think threads such as this are best posted in the Trailer Park section of the US forum. It's mainly Brits who post in there so they will have experience of both the NHS and US systems. This forum is for people moving back to the UK.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 5:14 am
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
Confused Yankee....I think threads such as this are best posted in the Trailer Park section of the US forum. It's mainly Brits who post in there so they will have experience of both the NHS and US systems. This forum is for people moving back to the UK.
True, we've had many talks about the perils of US health care.
If you want to know what UK NHS is like you best watch Michael Moores movie, it really is what nationalized health care is about in UK.
All the protesters over here (I'm in CA) have really bought into the rubbish being put about by the insurance companies who are worried about the bottom line.
I have worked as a nurse in UK and US. froma nurses point of view, US care really sucks unless you are pretty well off.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 5:21 am
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills
True, we've had many talks about the perils of US health care.
If you want to know what UK NHS is like you best watch Michael Moores movie, it really is what nationalized health care is about in UK.
All the protesters over here (I'm in CA) have really bought into the rubbish being put about by the insurance companies who are worried about the bottom line.
I have worked as a nurse in UK and US. froma nurses point of view, US care really sucks unless you are pretty well off.
What many Americans don't seem to realise is Brits have the NHS which is free at the point of service for every UK resident...plus very low cost meds...but they can also opt for private healthcare either by paying for it themselves or by having affordable healthcare insurance. It's not a one or the other system...Brits have the choice unlike most Americans. Many Americans are stuck in low paid jobs or jobs they don't like because they are provided with healthcare insurance.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 10:51 am
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Isn't this a political discussion instigated by confusedYankee?

Does that really belong here?

I think "Trailer Park" would be the right forum for this discussion piece.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 10:58 am
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

I couldnt believe my eyes yesterday when i watched the news. They showed people in one of these rallies physically fighting each other over this issue!!!

All is does for me is confirm my original thoughts. America is a very self absorbed, me, me, me, nation. Sod looking after ALL its people, just those with dollars to wave. Makes me sick. Should be ashamed of themselves
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 1:55 pm
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

[QUOTE=confusedYankee;7834017]
Cons:
-lower quality of care for those who will be giving up their plans. Docs in the UK practice in the NHS system, can also work privately (if they have time!), and therefore the quality of care is no different. I would say though that my experience of the US medical system is that most of the hospitals look like hotels which I guess could be classed as a better quality, but ultimately it's the medical care that you worry about.-cost of taxes would sky rocket - the National Insurance payments in the UK that cover the NHS contributions are nothing compared to what we have to pay here for our medical insurance and that doesn't then take into account all the co-pays and out of pockets that then get added.-Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness - sorry, but that's b/s -this has led to greedy doctors, the rich getting far better care than the poor and a multi billion dollar BUSINESS of providing health insurance/claims advice etc-Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility - probably some truth in this in that I have ultimate control here (in the US) as to who I see and for what, depending on what I'm willing to pay, so with an NHS style system you would be referred, or directed to a Doctor under the original Doctor's guidance.-Government-mandated procedures will likely reduce doctor flexibility and lead to poor patient care - how is this different from the restrictions applied by insurance companies on whether a patient can have certain treatments or medicines?-Healthy people who take care of themselves will have to pay for the burden of those who smoke, are obese, etc - do you really think we don't do that with our insurance premium increases anyway?? 17% increase has just been put onto my company's medical costs and we are all healthy
-Loss of private practice options and possible reduced pay may dissuade many would-be doctors from pursuing the profession - true there may be a reduction in their options, and maybe those that are entering it for greed will be disuaded, but if the system is implemented appropriately, the private sector is still going to exist and therefore, just as in the UK, they can chose to either serve under the NHS system, or the private one - or a mixture of both.-Malpractice lawsuit costs, which are already sky-high, could further explode since universal care may expose the government to legal liability, and the possibility to sue someone with deep pockets usually invites more lawsuits - forgive me but this is more to do with American society as a whole, rather than just a focus on the medical sector. There is a huge biase here towards apportioning blame, and therefore lawsuits, for all types if incidents that in the UK would never be taken to an attorney (although as with most things the UK is catching up to the US on this one), so I don't think this can be used as a negative regarding the medical system itself.Health care equipment, drugs, and services may end up being rationed by the government. In other words, politics, lifestyle of patients, and philosophical differences of those in power, could determine who gets what. Why would the government want to do that?
-Patients may be subjected to extremely long waits for treatment - It is certainly true that waiting lists in the UK do get their fare share of headlines, and on this, I would concur that waiting times would likely increase for non-emergency surgeries and other ailments. However, again if the plan is implemented correctly there will be a choice for those that can continue to go private to do so and therefore their waitint times will not differe

85%-90% of the american populous have some sort of medical care, some already being government ran, i.e. health plans to cover the poorest population especially children. Really? Figures I've seen have not got it that high


To conclude my thoughts on this as a UK national, I would say that I never appreciated the NHS until I no longer had it. To think I used to moan about a six pound prescription charge, when I now pay far more for any medical assistance, now makes me chuckle. The idea of a centralized health system is to make sure ALL people in your Country are looked after - what can be so wrong about that? I am not naive enough to think it will be perfect, but it is beyond me to think that a Country such as the US would not want to look after everyone.


*climbing off soap box*
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 2:05 pm
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Decreased patient flexibility does NOT apply. Anew system is now in place on the NHS whereby you can ask to be referred to ANY hospital in the UK for the treatemnt you require. It is up to you to find out which one is the best.
I have done htis twice since my return and we are currently researching where to take my grandaughter as she has had 2 seizures in the last week.
We are in rural Essex and might well ask to go to Great Ormond St. We have that choice now.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 2:23 pm
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Originally Posted by Fleaflyfloflum
Decreased patient flexibility does NOT apply. Anew system is now in place on the NHS whereby you can ask to be referred to ANY hospital in the UK for the treatemnt you require. It is up to you to find out which one is the best.
I have done htis twice since my return and we are currently researching where to take my grandaughter as she has had 2 seizures in the last week.
We are in rural Essex and might well ask to go to Great Ormond St. We have that choice now.
Goodness me, really sorry to hear about your granddaughter. Hopefully you'll get to the bottom of what has caused them quickly so they know how to treat further issues.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 2:32 pm
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Default Re: Confused Yankee wants the truth on uks example of a national health care.

Originally Posted by Fleaflyfloflum
Decreased patient flexibility does NOT apply. Anew system is now in place on the NHS whereby you can ask to be referred to ANY hospital in the UK for the treatemnt you require. It is up to you to find out which one is the best.
I have done htis twice since my return and we are currently researching where to take my grandaughter as she has had 2 seizures in the last week.
We are in rural Essex and might well ask to go to Great Ormond St. We have that choice now.
That's been the case for years.

Sorry to here about the little one Flea...it's not fair she should have all these problems poor little mite.
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