Sally Redux

Oh yeah

I can't stop using smilies

Kaffy Mintcake

I think what you said is pretty spot on. I just wish people would do their own homework. My Dad (who usually votes Republican but made an exception due to Palin) recently received a forward about the ills of the current plan. (See page 59 "xxx", see page 112 "xxx", you get the idea.)

He read all of the citations, decided that wasn't at all what was meant, and blasted the friend who sent it to him for not turning his brain on before hitting 'forward'.

I was pretty proud.

Fleaflyfloflum

What a knob!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Pol...nnan_Criticism

coachd

Fired!

luvwelly

This is the main 'new' concept I have picked up from this whole debacle/USA assault on NHS...how 'unfree' the people in the 'land of the free' really are....

simongb

Ah, yes. The USA, the land of corporate fascism. Tell people they're free often enough and they'll believe it. Even if they live in a prison of debts, illness and fear.
When I'm feeling positive, I do believe that the USA is going through a period of social change and has been changing for a few years now. Even though it doesn't seem like it at the moment. I do think people in the US, on the whole, want more security in their lives (social safety net, etc). I do think that in the future (maybe not my lifetime, we'll see) the US will look more like Europe or other countries with more of a social system. I also believe that eventually citizens will not be allowed to own guns in the future (again, it may take decades and this is something no politician will touch right now, but watch how things change in society, it will happen. I know this is not the debate, but it is a thought I've had for a while. We'll see). There is a cultural shift happening, no matter what Fox news says!

No one can stop progress forever and the truth will always come out eventually. The US is still a young country!

Dan725

You know, as much as I want it to succeed, I fear this rabid republican derailing of the healthcare proposal might actually work; and even if some parts go through, it will be so diluted as to be moot.

I sometimes wonder, in the interests of getting something done that even the townhall shouters could agree to, if it would be a better idea to stop the current strategy and work on a very small first step. To me, that first step should be to decouple healthcare from employment. Yep - bring in legislation that effectively bins (and bans) these employer group plans, and have an "everyone on their own" type deal. This would achieve a few things.

First and foremost, it would breathe some wind into the sails of people who want to set up their own businesses, but are scared to do so as they might lose their Fortune 500 insurance. If it didn't exist, they'd not have to worry about it.

Second. it would expose and out all of this "prexisting conditions can only be covered under a group plan" fiasco.....once the top boy CEO's of industry with pre-existing conditions realize they are about to lose their coverage...there would amazingly be a lot of big negotiations going on with insurance companies. Also, the decoupling would almost force the insurers to cover pre-existing conditions for all comers, as they would lose their massive contracts with the Fortune 500 folks. Precedents would be set.

If companies want to offer their employees healthcare benefits....all they simply have to do is pay them extra so they can use that money to pay for one of these free standing plans.

I think this little plan would appeal to everyone. The selfish republican crew would like it, because it remains fully private. In addition, the same people are usually big on rights and freedoms...and you could appeal to their sense of getting America back to its roots, as it would allow small business to flourish, etc.

It would also appeal to the other side as a huge step in the right direction. It could be marketed as an "Insurance for All" thing. it would take away the mythical "Group Plan" benefits, and really expose to many the flaws in the system - well, either that, or we'd see a huge shakeup in how insurers do business, to everyones benefit. Either way, it'd be good - would garner more support for a real reform, or be a step towards a workable private system. In addition, because it would be decoupled from employment, the loss of a job would not mean the loss of your plan, or a huge increase to keep it - the premium would stay the same.

What do you all think?

Bluegrass Lass

Do you foresee your proposal lowering the actual cost of treatments? Just because a person has an insurance plan, does not mean they can actually afford to use it. If the costs of co-pays, tests, prescriptions and treatments does not dramatically decrease it really doesn't make a difference. People would still go w/out getting help because they couldn't afford it, as well as people going bankrupt because the treatments are extortionately expensive. So what good does having insurance really do?

Dan725

Oh, you are definitely preaching to the choir here - I'm absolutely for a real reform, 100%. Answers to your questions there are obviously no. But it would be a step in the right direction, and I think it would appeal to everyone. Sure, people would still be going bankrupt, etc....but what's new there?

As I said, what it would do is draw attention to the current house of cards system, which favors big company insurance plans, and would even the keel for everybody. When big corporate fat cats start realizing they can't get coverage for their preexisting stuff, chances are there will be a bit of an attitude adjustment. And because they are the people with the keys to the kingdom, something might actually happen, which I think would lead to a softening of insurance company stances, and force people to take a greater look at the whole issue.

Don;t get me wrong, I'd love a proper reform tomorrow...however I have a sinking feeling it just ain't going to happen; all we'll end up with is a ton of (costly) bickering and a divided nation, when really there is plenty more that needs addressing right now as well.

zargof

I think this is an excellent synopsis of the situation.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/i...-200908141981/

Fleaflyfloflum

Oh my word!

This is turning into a MASSIVE outrage over here in UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...r-welovethenhs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8200817.stm


I particularly despise the revelation that Stephen Hawking is wrongly being used to diss the NHS, especially now it appears he refutes their claims that he would not be alive if he had to use the NHS. He has been!! And is pretty damn cross at those defaming it!
2 British women are also very angry at being used to diss the NHS. They were duped into doing interviews totally unaware of what it was being used for

Dan725

That is great!

elfman

like it

Stephen Malley, professor of American History at Reading University, added: "To be fair to Fox News and the Republicans, they do have a principled objection to socialised medicine based largely on the fact that a black man won the election

Fleaflyfloflum

Abetter read than the Guardian report

Bluegrass Lass

I think if we combined your ideas, along with tort reform and somehow incorporating economies-of-scale to get the cost of tests & prescriptions (& maybe treatments) lowered, we would all be much better off. At that point, then we could actually make insurance plans, in lieu of a single-payer plan, work pretty damn effectively.