Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Okay I see from another thread that you're all familiar with this case, well lets step back a minute and instead of looking at Terri's unfortunate situation lets look at the bigger picture...how do you feel about the Senate..nay the President of the United States coming into your home and interfering...passing a law to do what he thinks is right, regardless of your own or your loved ones wishes?

a feud between families is one thing but U.S Government intervention is another...how do you feel about this?

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

I don't believe its that simple....yes or no you're for it or not. I know that others will disagree, but I truly feel something had to be done for this case. Should it be done on a regular basis, well no. Does it have to be black and white in this circumstance....I don't know..... :confused:

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Sadly it is a quality of life issue & how much quality of life does the poor woman have ?

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

My problem with this and based on what I have read is that I cannot understand why the husband has not allowed any therapy therefore I cannot accept that their would be no improvement in the quality of life.
Secondly if he is such a caring person who has made another life with someone else (I am not passing judgement on that as it is his life) then if it was me I would make sure all the medical and other bills were paid up from the settlement and then let, as requested by them, her parents care for her for the rest of her life.
I am just not satisfied that all has been done that could have been done and if it has taken the Federal Government to get involved then so be it.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

If the parents can look after her on their dime, then good for them. If however this is costing the taxpayers money to keep a women alive who will never recover from her terrible brain injuries, then it's time to pull the plug so to speak.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

I wonder how much the special congressional session cost us all? I'm sure all kinds of clerks, secretaries etc had to be called in for Congress to vote on this....

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

From what I heard the legislation only applies to this particular case. I would have thought there were enough problems elsewhere in the world to keep the 'most powerful man in the world' fully occupied.....sounds like micromanagement on a grand scale!!

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

But it is not up to the parents, it is up to the husband. And as for whether all that has been done has been, 20 local and state judges AND the Supreme Court has looked at the evidence. For that reason alone, Congress and the President (and previously Gov Bush) should not interfere.

ABC news uncovered a memo from GOP HQ telling Repubs to use this for political leverage for midterm elections.

Finally, if this is what Congress is prepared to do, what about this case?
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...olitan/3084934

The laws being used in this case were passed by Bush during his tenure as Gov, permitting hospitals to yank feeding tubes from patients with no hope of improvement, or of paying their bills.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Sadly it is hard to look at this from a cold & rational stance, yes I think she should be allowed to die, but would I remove the feeding tube from the Memsahib, that is one descision I would never want to have to make.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Not to be completely cold and heartless here...but isn't it a major waste of tax money for bush to get involved when there is so much else that will affect far more people that could do with the time and money, like healthcare reform and the iraq situation?

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

When there is no where else to go what would you do? No matter where you are you take to the highest level you can for a decision whether it is the Supreme Court or the Hague or whatever applies. As I said I am not confident in my own mind that evrything possible has been done for her. Why refuse her therapy in any form? The following is another point of view on this subject.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comme...00503160848.asp

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

That is the point - the Supreme Court has already weighed in on this. Congress has no right to be involving itself in this. As a taxpayer I'm pissed - they can convene hearings over Janet Jacksons boob, Steroids in Baseball and now this, but can't balance the budget or even attempt to tackle the deficit!! Congress should have enough to do.

Plus, why this case, and not the one I linked to? As Barney Frank said, is Congress now going to have to consider ALL similar cases? That is what we have a judiciary for.

BTW - could you repost that link, as it doesn't work.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Sorry about the thread try this one
http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...0503160848.asp

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Correct me if I'm wrong but in many cases after extensive therapy (OT, physio, etc.) if the patient shows no sign of responding to the therapy then the therapists make a decision that the individual is unrehabable (sp?) and are discontinued from further therapy in order to free up time for others.

The guidelines influencing this decision, I have no idea.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Neither do I. This is the point I am trying to make. Why has the husband refused any therapy.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Heres a couple of videos

One of em is Tom Delay doing some slagging

http://treyjackson.typepad.com/junct...delay_bil.html

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

the case you linked to is not the same. the baby was being kept alive by a machine. terri is not being kept alive by a machine.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

But did he refuse any therapy? Did he from the outset? This we don't know.

I'm willing to bet that after the accident she had all therapy available to her. The point and reason why the therapy stopped is the grey area (to me anyway). Was he acting after being told that she was unresponsive to therapy?

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

She did have all the therapy available ..even being moved to California for a while to try something new for the first few years .... The experts say then and still do ... she will never recover ...

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

I accept she would never recover to full health but that does not mean to say she should be starved to death. There are a lot of almost equally tragic cases around. As for experts I suppose we trust them but can you? They can be wrong as the Expert who testified to cot deaths in the UK. There was more than one travesty of justice against his name. He was recognised as the expert beyond reproach in his field in the country and he caused a lot of misery.
I am just not yet convinced that the decision should be taken at this time without further investigation.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

I'm with Tony on this one.

I've heard people calling in to the talk radio stations saying that the husband wants his wife to be cremated as soon as possible after her death and is insisting that no autopsy be performed on her. Also he apparently did not mention a thing about her (allegedly) telling him of her wish to have any life-support assistance switched off until 7 years had passed. I have no idea if what I've heard is correct or not but he does seem to have some sort of agenda.

I don't know why he just can't divorce his wife and leave her to the care of her blood family...but I guess the idea of an insurance payout in the event of her death is motivating him.

One of the reasons I feel uneasy about this is that when I had my first caesarian section I had a general aneasthetic. Whilst I was on the operating table I distinctly heard a female voice exclaim..."it's a baby girl!" but I couldn't open my eyes or indeed move a muscle. For a few moments I heard the surgeons chattering and giving directions to the theatre staff, feeling a slight sensation of 'tugging' - presumably being stitched up - and it was almost like being half-alive and half-dead. :scared:

Fortunately I was obviously 'coming round' and I heard a voice telling me to wake up - I think I was being nudged or slapped a little to encourage me to do so.

I've never forgotten that sensation of being 'not quite there' and the next time I had a caesarian I chose to have a local aneasthetic.

To some degree....I do wonder if someone like Teri Schiavo may be in such a similar state....none of us knows for sure if she has any sense of what is going on around her - but what if she does but just can't communicate it to anyone? She isn't brain dead, but she does have brain damage. It's just too cruel to starve her to death....you wouldn't do it to your pet dog would you? d

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

well I hope you're right yorkie but I've a terrible feeling this is the start of how things are gonna be under Bush, he seems to muscle in on issues that don't concern him on a personal level and pass law dening others their freedoms to choose if those choices disagree with his personal beliefs:mad:
not heartless in the least Bob I've been watching several news channels of late and all i seem to see is camera's waiting for Martha to be released, Micheal Jackson, Scott Peterson ...even showing us his cell etc i mean inform us but these news reports were practically mini series on the subjects!!

Is there still a war in Iraq??? to watch the U.S news you'd hardly believe it :rolleyes: :mad:

What I did watch and enjoy was some old geezer on the Daily Show informing the American public that their being fed tripe by the News Networks , keeping the public dumbed down...too true and i'm sure that's the way Bush and his cronies like it :rolleyes: :mad:

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

... or his political agenda.

Didn't he receive substantial backing from the religious right. To turn his back on this wouldn't be the cleverest of political moves IMO.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Really reliable, credible, and unbiased sources then.
The amount of hysterical disinformation flying about in this case is shocking. There are even right wing "news" sites that are pushing stories about how she can talk and has been begging to live.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

I'm sorry but everything you've posted here is pure speculation and gossip.

How do you know for certain that he didn't have a conversation with his wife discussing what to do in the circumstances? I have nothing on paper yet but have told my wife if she kept me alive under those circumstances I would come back to haunt her.

Elaborate on why you think he has "some sort of agenda." Might his agenda be to carry out her wishes that she expressed whilst in full health?

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

isn't it scary when religious extremist have the power to change laws...cos that's all it is...it absolutely boggles my mind that Bush and his religious cronies get away with this....he's so in your face about it all...he doesn't even respect Seperation of Church and State and that's in the U.S Constitution!!! :eek: :mad:

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Why do you think he had the conversation with his wife? Speculation aside (and even that conversation is speculation) unless you have something written in stone (or blood will do nicely) don't be surprised if the same damn thing wouldn't happen to you.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Personally Ido not think this statement has anything to do with the discussion.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Nobody does and that is the whole point. I do not think it will stand up legally but I am certainly no lawyer to confirm that point.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

well i think it does....when i began the thread i said take a step back...this is just Bush intervening to further his political agenda as stated by another poster , I fully agree and I'm outraged....regardless of how heart wrenching and sad this case is I don't think Government interference is appropriate, God help all of us when the U.S Government takes it apon itself to decide what personal choices are in our best interest :mad:

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

In the light of your statement I find invoking God's help very thought provoking.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

We don't know, that was my point. I was basically replying to the post that was speculating that he had "some sort of agenda". If others can speculate based on a few cranks phoning into a chat show that "the idea of an insurance payout in the event of her death is motivating him" then why not speculate that his intentions are honourable and well-meaning.

The man (IMO) is being demonized by a few who have no clue whatsoever what his motives are. Until someone presents hard evidence to me (and a chatshow doesn't count) that he has some sort of alterior motive he gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

God forgive that if the same thing happened to me there would be people that didn't know my wife judging her motives.

The sad thing about all this IMO is that it is now being used for political gain. Bet my bottom dollar this case is brought up somewhere in the next presidential election to score points.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

I absolutely concur, CA. When the gov't steps in and overrides the wishes of the family due to nothing but political gain, this country is facing a sad day.

It truly, truly burns me to think about how much money this special meeting of Congress has cost us. They could have spent their time more wisely by voting on healthcare, education, feeding the homeless, Social Security, welfare, and God knows what else that could benefit countless numbers of people. Instead this was a waste of time, energy, and money. I sympathize with the parents, but IMO, if they truly loved their daughter, they'd let her go. Who would want their child to live like that? Being unable to communicate, feed myself, clothe myself or wipe my own ass is not living - I think they should just face reality let her go and quite wasting the country's time. I know that sounds cold to most, but there are more pressing issues in the world today and this does not even rank in the top 1000.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

No it isn't exactly the same, but it is the principal I am talking about, and the fact that Bush signed the legislation, which appears to be completely against this current Sanctity of Life trip he is currently on.

This case is being purely used for political gain, and a smoke screen to cover Iraq, deficit and Tom Delays current indictments!

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

This case has huge repercussions.

If she is allowed to die, in the future, if one of you receives some sort of brain-damage in an accident for example, your spouse will be able to withdraw therapy, food and water and let you die, without recourse.

A close friend was injured in a car accident, lost his hearing in one ear, and suffered quite extensive brain damage. With intense therapy over the period of five years or so, he is able to hold down a job, drives..etc..etc..He isn't the 'bright-spark' he was before, but he is who he is today.

A cousin of mine caught meningitis as a toddler and lived in a truly vegetative state for 45 years. But her mother would never in her wildest dreams want to 'pull the plug' on her. Cared for her all that time.

I can't imagine life without both of them around. I can imagine what her parents must be going through. If the parents are willing to take care of her, let them, don't murder her.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Thankfully Bush won't be running next term....unless he "fixes" it. :rolleyes:

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

I may be mistaken, but quite frankly I think that's already the case.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Thats the state law now, that is why she has been allowed to die, your spouse has the last say on what happens to you if you have no living will. Thats why the case is such an outrage, the federal government should not get involved in state law.

This was all a political stunt by the Republicans to please there base, instead every american should be outraged. Congress has not acted to stop 8 students in Minesota from being killed or to stop it from happening again, yet one woman in a vegatative state brings Congress to a standstill

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Congratulations, your transformation into an American is now complete. :)

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

No it's not. It's a constitutional issue.