Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Source (credible, i.e unbiased) please.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Apples and oranges I'm afraid. FWIW, I advocate some form of socialised medicine in the US, which gets me into a fair few bar brawls.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

And you consider the morphine administration to be murder also?

Just want to clarify where you're coming from.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

From what I've observed, it seemed the case anyway, the missus' grandmother died of cancer last year and the hospital had people arranged by age groups, and lots of ventilated old biddied on that floor...probably get more from insruance rather than for the good of the patient...don't know...

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

and you carry on with your delusional thinking..
glad i am not a relative of yours you would remove all treatment at the first sign of brain damage..
pity you don't have a feeding tube the medics could pull it as you obviously have some kind of brain damage.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Aye, I don't see what the problem is...but they all think we'll turn in to furry big communist animals or something...

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

http://www.britishexpats.com/forum/i...milies/eek.gif

Now, now girls, handbags at fifty paces.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Yep we are all entitled to our opinion- I wouldn't keep a dog alive the way that woman is being kept alive. "If" she has any real brain activity, then its doesn't bear thinking about what she has suffered this last 15 years. Too cruel for words. However, opinions aside her husband is the one with the right to decide - its not up to anyone else, not even her parents- she is not a child she is a grown married woman. Its his call, no-one else's.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

I think she received therapy during the first few years but her condition didn't improve so they stopped. See the BBC article, it has a more acurate timeline than terrisfight.net.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

It could be construed as that. Everyone needs nutrition, is that artificial?

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

did i say that..
i think euthanasia should be legal. allowing someone to die with dignity it not a problem with me. removing a feeding tube is not imo a dignified way to die.
i don't have a problem with people being allowed to die.
i do have a problem with how they are allowed to die.
i will wait for your sarcastic answer...............:rolleyes:

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

The right-to-life movement are the ones who refused to allow euthanasia to be legal, and they put Kevorkian into jail. I think we can find a lot of common ground in this forum but unfortunately the American system has rejected common sense at every turn.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

no neither would i, but a dog would get an injection and put to sleep.
you would get prosecuted for animal cruelty if you starved it to death.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Everyone needs nutrition, and that's not artificial. Being fed by a feeding tube is not natural, so, by definition, it is artificial.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Perhaps....but its a bit scary that if we start exterminating one group level, we just might move on to the next level....

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

A play on words from the spin doctors. She is receiving 24-hour nursing care, without which she would die. The family could certainly perform this if they so wished with a little training. There's no point in having a doctor attend since there's nothing s/he could do. There's no point in having rehabilitation because there's nothing to build on. Period.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

We're not Nazis you know. This is humane... OK maybe removing the feeding tube isn't, but giving her an injection is not legal in the US so they have no other choice.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

It's done all the time. But not after this hoo-hah.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Explain with a source to back it up how me claiming that A PEG feed is artificial is delusional.

Tell you what, find me one source that says it is natural and I'll concede defeat.

You can't! :D

Guess why? :D

Because the whole bloody world with the exception of yourself doesn't believe that walking around with a plastic tube hanging out of your gut isn't artificial.

Mmmm, and you call me brain damaged! :D

But, GASP!!!! :eek:

That would be murder!!!! :D

Eagerly anticipating your source to back up your rants!!! (lets face it, that's all they are.) Emotionally charged rants!

:beer: (a natural way of feeding )

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

I don't know what we are....and it doesn't feel humane.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

The poor?

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Not true!!! If the pastor says,...

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

No the Communists; them and their bloomin' national health service!

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Aren't they already being exterminated? Well in a very legal way of course.
;)

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Black people, yellow people, green people, bloody foreginers, liberals, those who haven't accepted GWB as their personal saviour, etc.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

ker-ching!

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

You're forgetting the people who don't wear tin foil on their heads; it's just not patriotic.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

As long as they've run out of steam before they get to fat people, I'm okay!

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

I forgot about one other.... people who don't like Mel Gibson... because he is The Patriot.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Not if you removed its life support and allowed it to die naturally.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

No, but the means in which it is given could be...

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

for good sake i am not the only person in the world that says it is wrong to withdraw a feeding tube..

http://www.spucscotland.org/educatio...yblandpvs.html


oh no a doctor in the british medical journal doesn't see tube feeding as artifical he sees it as a tool for daily living..

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

but by not giving food that is not being allowed to die naturally.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Re the judges - everyone in the media, internet boards etc keeps saying how they have had 16 judges look at this case and all have agreed with Michale Schiavo. My understanding is that the only judge who has actually gone through the evidence is Greer. The other courts have been dealing purely with the appropriateness of appeals or other judicial issues - NOT the facts of the case. I have asked so many times - what about the bone scan? What about the affidavits of friends and family saying that she was abused? What about the allegations of abuse now being brought to light? What about the allegations of withholding treatment? All allegations, but if she was your daughter, sister, niece - do you think you could honestly say that she should be starved to death without knowing if something might work?

My feel totally heartbroken at this. I guess everyone will just have to sit by as she is starved to death. I have talked to people today that were almost motivated to go to Florida to sit outside the hospice with the others praying for her life. How the HELL can those courts side with her husband I have no idea. He was all for doing everything possible to rehabilitate her and save her till he won that lawsuit. Then suddenly it was time for her to die. He has moved on with a new woman and children so how can his heart still be with Terri. But all that is overlooked and the government says DIE!

When you love someone deeply, when you are talking about a member of your family or someone close, when you have a long history with a person - and when that person is not capable of making their own decisions - and when there is no written documentation as to what that person desired should they become in an incapacitated state - then as a parent who loves that child - you should have the right to decide what is best for that child regardless of what age they are when this happens. People move on as Michael Schiavo clearly has, and if there is doubt that he might not have her best interests at heart, as many have said before, why not err on the side of life?

Why doesn't anyone realize why he is fighting for her death? Duh. He gets to keep the remains of the settlement in the malpractice suit (not much tho I wouldnt imagine). He gets to keep the full marital estate and assets, life insurance etc. He gets to get away with murdering his wife - with the full blessing of the legal system of this country.

Wonder what would happen if there was a law that said if you voluntarily withdraw feeding from a spouse then you don't get the life insurance. Things that make ya go hmmmmmm....

I rarely pray and am not a particularly religious person but I prayed for Terri. But those prayers went unanswered. Might have converted me too if things had turned out different.

Sorry for the long post, and I know most disagree with me, but I am so upset over this and had to try and explain why I feel the way I do.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

i am not religious....... why is it that if someone does not agree with something it has to be based on religion.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

IMO, many of the people who sit on the same side of the table as you (i.e. she must be kept alive at all costs) have been encouraged to come to this point of view through their pastor.

My comment did not say you were religious; it said that there were more than one on your side, and also gave my opinion of how many of them had arrived there.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

it is amazing how people twist what is being said.
i do not say life must be kept at all cost
i do say that it should be a persons right to die. in terri case this has not been proved imho. we have no written proof that it was her wish.
i do say that a person should be allowed to die with dignity. and imo starving someone to death is not a death with dignity.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

Difficult to know where you're going when I read your posts. They're full of emotion and, consequently, IMO tend to flip around the issues without considering the implications.

So at the moment, you're standing where...

There is a limit to extending life, but I am unsure where you place it. What has happened with Ms. Schiavo that doesn't meet these criteria?

Are you certain it's a good idea that nobody will be allowed to die without written proof?

People may be allowed to die but not by starving but some other method? If so, please suggest method.

Re: Bush signs Schiavo legislation
 

this started because i said i did not think that tube feeding was artifical.
i still stand by that. if someone is not on artifical life support and legally and completly brain dead. i do not think if they have not made a living will any other person should be able to make the desicion on if they die or not.
my position is quite simple if someone can breath on there own and the heart beats they should be allowed to live if they have not made any prior written statement.