British ID Cards Anyone?
Mar 29th 2006, 4:13 pm
#61
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Damn brit workers sodding around ... load of lefty guardian readers......
Last edited by Ray; Mar 29th 2006 at 4:15 pm.
Mar 29th 2006, 4:18 pm
#62
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 73,208
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Ray
Damn brit workers sodding around ... load of lefty guardian readers......
No, they're probably just ogling page 3.
Mar 30th 2006, 2:11 am
#63
Thinking about it
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Mid-West
Posts: 9,435
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
This is completely f**ked up.
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4860642.stm
Especially this bit...
What is the point in having them is they are not compulosry to carry anyway ??
Oh, and I look forward to the first case where someone sues because details of say a spent criminal record were leaked to a potential employer or their name was actually linked to the details of someone else who has a record.
I would also imagine that the whole thing is illegal under European laws, and yet again Labour are claiming that the public want this which appears to be completely inaccurate and just a flat out lie.
Like I said before the current system is fine if it is properly administered - if they can't do that properly what makes them think that they will be able to impliment a far more complex scheme ??
Oh, and this....wtf is this about ??
If banks don't know how to check people out properly that is their look out, and the figure quoted - how did they come up with that ??
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4860642.stm
Especially this bit...
People applying for passports will have to visit their local passport office where they will be interviewed, fingerprinted and have "background checks" carried out on them.
Their details will be entered on to the database and they will be issued with an identity card, although they will not be forced by law to carry it.
Their details will be entered on to the database and they will be issued with an identity card, although they will not be forced by law to carry it.
Oh, and I look forward to the first case where someone sues because details of say a spent criminal record were leaked to a potential employer or their name was actually linked to the details of someone else who has a record.
I would also imagine that the whole thing is illegal under European laws, and yet again Labour are claiming that the public want this which appears to be completely inaccurate and just a flat out lie.
Like I said before the current system is fine if it is properly administered - if they can't do that properly what makes them think that they will be able to impliment a far more complex scheme ??
Oh, and this....wtf is this about ??
If banks don't know how to check people out properly that is their look out, and the figure quoted - how did they come up with that ??
Banks will be able to check people are who they say they are on the government's national identity database.
The "potential benefits to the private sector" of ID cards added up to £425m a year, said Mr Clarke.
The "potential benefits to the private sector" of ID cards added up to £425m a year, said Mr Clarke.
Last edited by BigDavyG; Mar 30th 2006 at 2:16 am.
Mar 30th 2006, 2:17 am
#64
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,271
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Both my father and uncle used to not carry their driving licenses as a matter of principle (it wasn't required and they wished to exercise that right). They would not be happy at the current proposals. They were both in WWII, and were used to id's being issued in times of war, but believed that one of the things they fought for was freedom from such a measure of state control of the population. I must be an anachronism.
"It is an offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988 to fail to produce, on demand, your driving documents to a constable when required. Under this act I can issue you with a seven day notice to provide said documents at a police station of your choice. Failure to do so within seven days from midnight tonight or if, on production, there are irregularites in said documents, then you may be prosecuted under the Road Traffic Act 1988. Do you wish accept this?"
If they said no or I thought they were just tossers then I could just slap one on them for failure to produce there and then....believe me I did it more than once.
Mar 30th 2006, 2:21 am
#65
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,271
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by rushman
Good old HORT(1)
Gave you five days to go buy a bent M.O.T and a dodgy insurance cover note
Nice one Mr Plod, ta very much
Gave you five days to go buy a bent M.O.T and a dodgy insurance cover note
Nice one Mr Plod, ta very muchHome Office Road Traffic Document 1. Pronouced "Horty". Seven days. And the only at the discrection of the copper that pulled you (see above).
Mar 30th 2006, 2:23 am
#66
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,271
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
The principle of liberty from government surveillance is important. It's not a matter of whether you've done anything wrong, but of whether you want a government body to collect all this data and be able to demand that you present said card whether you have done anything wrong or not. Personally, I even get annoyed when I got to a shop where you have to show your receipt and have your stuff checked just to leave, although I have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide.
In addition, nobody has been able to come up with any evidence that such record keeping will actually make anyone any safer.
In addition, nobody has been able to come up with any evidence that such record keeping will actually make anyone any safer.
Thing is if there weren't naughty people doing bad things then no-one would need monitoring or reciepts to prove they weren't naughty.
Mar 30th 2006, 2:28 am
#67
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 73,208
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Angry White Pyjamas
Thing is if there weren't naughty people doing bad things then no-one would need monitoring or reciepts to prove they weren't naughty.
However, people who are not naughty should not constantly be having to prove it. The burden is always on the prosecution, in every sense. Or it should be.
Second, nobody can seem to prove any of this monitoring stuff will prevent crime or terrorism. Seems to be a traditional sop thrown by the government to gain popularity in some quarters, or to whip up fear and therefore support, or simply to distract.
Mar 30th 2006, 2:29 am
#68
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 73,208
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Angry White Pyjamas
Well actually the law plainly states that (and I had to say this many, many times):
"It is an offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988 to fail to produce, on demand, your driving documents to a constable when required. Under this act I can issue you with a seven day notice to provide said documents at a police station of your choice. Failure to do so within seven days from midnight tonight or if, on production, there are irregularites in said documents, then you may be prosecuted under the Road Traffic Act 1988. Do you wish accept this?"
If they said no or I thought they were just tossers then I could just slap one on them for failure to produce there and then....believe me I did it more than once.
"It is an offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988 to fail to produce, on demand, your driving documents to a constable when required. Under this act I can issue you with a seven day notice to provide said documents at a police station of your choice. Failure to do so within seven days from midnight tonight or if, on production, there are irregularites in said documents, then you may be prosecuted under the Road Traffic Act 1988. Do you wish accept this?"
If they said no or I thought they were just tossers then I could just slap one on them for failure to produce there and then....believe me I did it more than once.
He always used to go down to the cop shop in the 7 days. Most of his driving happened well before 1988 though.
Mar 30th 2006, 2:31 am
#69
Thinking about it
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Mid-West
Posts: 9,435
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
However, people who are not naughty should not constantly be having to prove it. The burden is always on the prosecution, in every sense. Or it should be.
Second, nobody can seem to prove any of this monitoring stuff will prevent crime or terrorism. Seems to be a traditional sop thrown by the government to gain popularity in some quarters, or to whip up fear and therefore support, or simply to distract.
Second, nobody can seem to prove any of this monitoring stuff will prevent crime or terrorism. Seems to be a traditional sop thrown by the government to gain popularity in some quarters, or to whip up fear and therefore support, or simply to distract.
Like I said before - the current system would be more than adequate with just a few tweaks and a bit of commonsense.
The papers in the UK should be going doolally over this - I wonder if they are ??
Mar 30th 2006, 2:31 am
#70
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,271
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
However, people who are not naughty should not constantly be having to prove it. The burden is always on the prosecution, in every sense. Or it should be.
Second, nobody can seem to prove any of this monitoring stuff will prevent crime or terrorism. Seems to be a traditional sop thrown by the government to gain popularity in some quarters, or to whip up fear and therefore support, or simply to distract.
Second, nobody can seem to prove any of this monitoring stuff will prevent crime or terrorism. Seems to be a traditional sop thrown by the government to gain popularity in some quarters, or to whip up fear and therefore support, or simply to distract.
Personally I think ID cards are a waste of space.
Mar 30th 2006, 2:48 am
#71
Junior Showtime
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3,759
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Angry White Pyjamas
I realise it should be innocent till proven guilty but in reality how many people do naughty things without even thinking of them as illegal? Speeding, "borrowing" the office stationary, etc, etc...all actually illegal but not considered so by most people. I'm pretty most people would do more "naughty" things if they thought they could get away with it.
Personally I think ID cards are a waste of space.
Personally I think ID cards are a waste of space.
What difference would it have made to prevent the July 05 bombers in London - None.
What difference will this make to some asshole company who are tasked with administering and issuing these cards - a lot of money.
Who will benefit when your ID card carries a chip that can be automatically scanned as you pass through a "barrier" - Anyone who wants to make use of that data. The "barriers" will not need to be posted as such as they come within the sphere of security. This scheme could be used in much the same way as offender tagging. IMHO
Mar 30th 2006, 3:06 am
#72
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,105
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Angry White Pyjamas
Well actually the law plainly states that (and I had to say this many, many times):
"It is an offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988 to fail to produce, on demand, your driving documents to a constable when required. Under this act I can issue you with a seven day notice to provide said documents at a police station of your choice. Failure to do so within seven days from midnight tonight or if, on production, there are irregularites in said documents, then you may be prosecuted under the Road Traffic Act 1988. Do you wish accept this?"
If they said no or I thought they were just tossers then I could just slap one on them for failure to produce there and then....believe me I did it more than once.
"It is an offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988 to fail to produce, on demand, your driving documents to a constable when required. Under this act I can issue you with a seven day notice to provide said documents at a police station of your choice. Failure to do so within seven days from midnight tonight or if, on production, there are irregularites in said documents, then you may be prosecuted under the Road Traffic Act 1988. Do you wish accept this?"
If they said no or I thought they were just tossers then I could just slap one on them for failure to produce there and then....believe me I did it more than once.
Mar 30th 2006, 3:09 am
#73
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Kate2112
Who will benefit when your ID card carries a chip that can be automatically scanned as you pass through a "barrier" - Anyone who wants to make use of that data. The "barriers" will not need to be posted as such as they come within the sphere of security. This scheme could be used in much the same way as offender tagging. IMHO
Mar 30th 2006, 3:14 am
#74
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by Kate2112
Who will benefit when your ID card carries a chip that can be automatically scanned as you pass through a "barrier" - Anyone who wants to make use of that data. The "barriers" will not need to be posted as such as they come within the sphere of security. This scheme could be used in much the same way as offender tagging. IMHO
Mar 30th 2006, 3:16 am
#75
Junior Showtime
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3,759
Re: British ID Cards Anyone?
Originally Posted by fatbrit
Thirty seconds in the mircrowave should solve that!
