The American Dream Still Alive?
#137
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
I can only speak from personal experience; looking back at records from the time, I was making 9,000 pounds a year in London in late '83, and transferred over to a job here with a starting salary of $30,000 (same job - programmer). In the first year, I received two raises, ending 1984 at $43k (I worked on some 'high visibility' projects and demonstrated that I was capable of far more than they originally hired me for, and I was rewarded accordingly - not something I would expect to happen in the UK), then $46k, $52k, and so on, getting raises of approx. 9% per year for several years simply because I worked hard.
I no longer have records of the housing I looked at in London, all I remember is that even crappy dumps were going for extremely high prices. Not one programmer I worked with back then was able to buy property in London, unless they had help from family (which some did, and good luck to them).
So for me at least, the income was higher, the expenses were lower, and the opportunity - availability of jobs and chance of promotion - was much greater. If your husband had a different experience, that's great! I have heard that things changed quite a bit over there after rhe early '80s - that salaries got more competitive, that the work environment/attitude 'modernized' somewhat; if so, great - but it was too late for me.
#138
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
Since I didn't stay there, we'll never know whether I would have actually 'made it' or not, but I certainly felt that the cards were stacked against me. The housing prices in London in 1983 were very high, ........ I have heard that things changed quite a bit over there after rhe early '80s - that salaries got more competitive, that the work environment/attitude 'modernized' somewhat; if so, great - but it was too late for me.
#139
Homebody
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: HOME
Posts: 23,181
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
I think that's the nub - in the 80's it wasn't an easy time at all and I could definitely see that the US was a better bet. The UK's economy has been growing consistently since 1994 and things over the past 10-15 years have gotten a lot better in almost every way. It would be difficult to buy a place in London now on a newly-minted engineers salary, but you could say the same for SF.
BTW, it is still possible to get a decent, fair-sized flat in a nice area - albeit in need of modernisation - for a little over 200k. Too much for a single new graduate, but doable for a couple or 2 willing to share.
#140
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
1980s? Remind me again who was running the government at that time...
BTW, it is still possible to get a decent, fair-sized flat in a nice area - albeit in need of modernisation - for a little over 200k. Too much for a single new graduate, but doable for a couple or 2 willing to share.
BTW, it is still possible to get a decent, fair-sized flat in a nice area - albeit in need of modernisation - for a little over 200k. Too much for a single new graduate, but doable for a couple or 2 willing to share.
Could you provide a link to support that 200k+ idea? My niece just bought a flat in Manchester (which I would rate infinitely inferior to London) for 200k (and that was a bank-repo price). Is London not way, way more expensive? What are you calling 'nice area'? To me, London is a wonderful place if you can live within easy access of the wonders it has to offer - the museums, theaters, etc - or at least close to a tube line and in a half-decent area.
Back then, I wanted a place inside the North Circular, not too far from the M1, not too far from Hampstead (which was my favorite non-central area); this map link should give an idea of what I was shooting for. This area had no specific local appeal - crowded, high-density, 'generic' urban architecture, nothing great too close by - but it was an area I felt was tolerable and a good starting point - but way out of reach.
#142
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: HMP Strangeways
Posts: 5,206
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
Maggie was in charge over there, Ronnie in charge over here - talk about frying pan and fire, or 'Rock and a Hard Place'!
Could you provide a link to support that 200k+ idea? My niece just bought a flat in Manchester (which I would rate infinitely inferior to London) for 200k (and that was a bank-repo price). Is London not way, way more expensive? What are you calling 'nice area'? To me, London is a wonderful place if you can live within easy access of the wonders it has to offer - the museums, theaters, etc - or at least close to a tube line and in a half-decent area.
Back then, I wanted a place inside the North Circular, not too far from the M1, not too far from Hampstead (which was my favorite non-central area); this map link should give an idea of what I was shooting for. This area had no specific local appeal - crowded, high-density, 'generic' urban architecture, nothing great too close by - but it was an area I felt was tolerable and a good starting point - but way out of reach.
Could you provide a link to support that 200k+ idea? My niece just bought a flat in Manchester (which I would rate infinitely inferior to London) for 200k (and that was a bank-repo price). Is London not way, way more expensive? What are you calling 'nice area'? To me, London is a wonderful place if you can live within easy access of the wonders it has to offer - the museums, theaters, etc - or at least close to a tube line and in a half-decent area.
Back then, I wanted a place inside the North Circular, not too far from the M1, not too far from Hampstead (which was my favorite non-central area); this map link should give an idea of what I was shooting for. This area had no specific local appeal - crowded, high-density, 'generic' urban architecture, nothing great too close by - but it was an area I felt was tolerable and a good starting point - but way out of reach.
#143
Last orders please...
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Way down deep in the middle of the Jungle..
Posts: 6,154
#144
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
1980s? Remind me again who was running the government at that time...
BTW, it is still possible to get a decent, fair-sized flat in a nice area - albeit in need of modernisation - for a little over 200k. Too much for a single new graduate, but doable for a couple or 2 willing to share.
BTW, it is still possible to get a decent, fair-sized flat in a nice area - albeit in need of modernisation - for a little over 200k. Too much for a single new graduate, but doable for a couple or 2 willing to share.
#146
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
My niece just bought a flat in Manchester (which I would rate infinitely inferior to London) for 200k (and that was a bank-repo price)
Manchester is NOT inferior to London. It has so much to offer. Great city. I am a Mancunian and damn proud of it too.
Manchester is NOT inferior to London. It has so much to offer. Great city. I am a Mancunian and damn proud of it too.
#147
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,583
Re: The American Dream Still Alive?
I don't know where you are, but I was making a lot more than $50K in the SF Bat Area over ten years ago. I just checked my 1996 Fed Income tax return and I made $71,961 in 1996.