Elvira

Rubbish. Just because you didn't make it... My DH is an engineer and we certainly did not move to the US for the money...

Steerpike

Since I didn't stay there, we'll never know whether I would have actually 'made it' or not, but I certainly felt that the cards were stacked against me. The housing prices in London in 1983 were very high, even for a generic apartment in a non-descript suburb, and my salary as an engineer was relatively low. The only way I could have ever afforded to buy even the smallest of apartments would have been if I'd received significant pay raises, and the system seemed extremely rigid in terms of salary progression.

I can only speak from personal experience; looking back at records from the time, I was making 9,000 pounds a year in London in late '83, and transferred over to a job here with a starting salary of $30,000 (same job - programmer). In the first year, I received two raises, ending 1984 at $43k (I worked on some 'high visibility' projects and demonstrated that I was capable of far more than they originally hired me for, and I was rewarded accordingly - not something I would expect to happen in the UK), then $46k, $52k, and so on, getting raises of approx. 9% per year for several years simply because I worked hard.

I no longer have records of the housing I looked at in London, all I remember is that even crappy dumps were going for extremely high prices. Not one programmer I worked with back then was able to buy property in London, unless they had help from family (which some did, and good luck to them).

So for me at least, the income was higher, the expenses were lower, and the opportunity - availability of jobs and chance of promotion - was much greater. If your husband had a different experience, that's great! I have heard that things changed quite a bit over there after rhe early '80s - that salaries got more competitive, that the work environment/attitude 'modernized' somewhat; if so, great - but it was too late for me.

Cape Blue

I think that's the nub - in the 80's it wasn't an easy time at all and I could definitely see that the US was a better bet. The UK's economy has been growing consistently since 1994 and things over the past 10-15 years have gotten a lot better in almost every way. It would be difficult to buy a place in London now on a newly-minted engineers salary, but you could say the same for SF.

Elvira

1980s? Remind me again who was running the government at that time...

BTW, it is still possible to get a decent, fair-sized flat in a nice area - albeit in need of modernisation - for a little over 200k. Too much for a single new graduate, but doable for a couple or 2 willing to share.

Steerpike

Maggie was in charge over there, Ronnie in charge over here - talk about frying pan and fire, or 'Rock and a Hard Place'!

Could you provide a link to support that 200k+ idea? My niece just bought a flat in Manchester (which I would rate infinitely inferior to London) for 200k (and that was a bank-repo price). Is London not way, way more expensive? What are you calling 'nice area'? To me, London is a wonderful place if you can live within easy access of the wonders it has to offer - the museums, theaters, etc - or at least close to a tube line and in a half-decent area.

Back then, I wanted a place inside the North Circular, not too far from the M1, not too far from Hampstead (which was my favorite non-central area); this map link should give an idea of what I was shooting for. This area had no specific local appeal - crowded, high-density, 'generic' urban architecture, nothing great too close by - but it was an area I felt was tolerable and a good starting point - but way out of reach.

Elvira

Have PMed you...

Dogbyte

Excuse me !! . Manchester inferior to London. RUBBISH !!

lisag8070

Hear...Hear...how dare you slander our beautiful city....it is unique in its own way...so there...

Cape Blue

I think you might be a little bit optimistic Elvira - the average graduate starting salary was 20,800 last year, so two together would need a 5 times mortgage on both their salaries to get a 200K pad. Let alone having a deposit after paying their way through Uni and having a student loan.

Xebedee

Sure, Engineering. Electrical and Mechanical.
There is a need but the pay is low in proportion to the training involved in that discipline.

simongb

My niece just bought a flat in Manchester (which I would rate infinitely inferior to London) for 200k (and that was a bank-repo price)


Manchester is NOT inferior to London. It has so much to offer. Great city. I am a Mancunian and damn proud of it too.

surly

I don't know where you are, but I was making a lot more than $50K in the SF Bat Area over ten years ago. I just checked my 1996 Fed Income tax return and I made $71,961 in 1996.

simongb

Is the American Dream alive? NO.

surly

There are always winners and losers. Which are you?

Redlippie

Not everyone wants to make being a rent boy their career.