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Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Old Nov 8th 2006, 11:32 am
  #1  
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Default Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Michigan voted to repeal Affirmative Action, which to me seems a little more worrying than the whole gay marriage thing. Seems like Michigan has turned back the clock with regards to equal rights. Very shocking to me. I can't imagine the UK repealing it's equal op's legislation. If it isn't working it should be overhauled, not scrapped.
Of course Michigan is in recession which explains a lot. Why should a black person have a chance of a job when whites can't work?
Very sad and disturbing for the nation if you ask me (which you haven't but there ya go).
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 12:37 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Originally Posted by Silly Sod
Michigan voted to repeal Affirmative Action, which to me seems a little more worrying than the whole gay marriage thing. Seems like Michigan has turned back the clock with regards to equal rights. Very shocking to me. I can't imagine the UK repealing it's equal op's legislation. If it isn't working it should be overhauled, not scrapped.
Of course Michigan is in recession which explains a lot. Why should a black person have a chance of a job when whites can't work?
Very sad and disturbing for the nation if you ask me (which you haven't but there ya go).
Affirmative action is un-equal rights.

for example........
I am a white kid lose my place at college to an kid of ethnic minority because the college has a quota of places demanded to be filled by minorities.
even though I may have better grades than the other kid.

repealing affirmative action is equaling the rights for all.
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 12:49 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

I am pleased to see this one defeated, as the purpose in this case is to target universities and state offices (came about due to the U of M situation). Affirmative action acceptances on the uni level are unfair--race shouldn't matter and it's discrimination for one person to lose a place because a racial quote hasn't been filled.

The initiative read:

Proposed amendment to Michigan Constitution would "prohibit the University of Michigan and other state universities, the state, and all other state entities from discriminating against or granting preferential treatment based on race, sex, color, ethnicity or national origin." On June 23, 2003, the U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision in Grutter v. Bollinger, ruled in favor of affirmative action in the University of Michigan's admissions policies. The Bush administration opposed the university's pro-affirmative action admission policies.

Sounds fair enough.

Last edited by jen_andreson; Nov 8th 2006 at 12:51 pm.
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 1:05 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

So you want to send your little white boy to a school, populated by little white boys?

You don't think that living and learning with a diverse population is good?

I've seen your other posts and I don't believe you want to prevent the universities from assembling a good mix of socio-economic and racial backgrounds.
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 1:07 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Originally Posted by paddingtongreen
I've seen your other posts and I don't believe you want to prevent the universities from assembling a good mix of socio-economic and racial backgrounds.
not at the expense of people whom may deserve to be there more.
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 1:28 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Affirmative action is a morally bankrupt idea, it's nothing more than institutionalized racism.

I'm actually with (the anti-Christ) Bill O'Reilly on this: I support affirmative action on the basis of economic class but not on the basis of race. IMO, most of the problems labeled "racial" in this country are really caused by economic desparity.
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 1:54 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Originally Posted by Hiro11
(the anti-Christ) Bill O'Reilly on this:
no he isn't - he's a big cuddly teddy bear, a real softie at heart
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 1:57 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

OMG ... Mercury going pass the sun today must be throwing everything out of alignment. I actually agree with you.

Affirmative action is discrimination. Just as there is no such thing as reverse discrimination (discrimination is still discrimination), affirmative action is actually negative action. A legal act of discrimination.

Originally Posted by Manc
Affirmative action is un-equal rights.

for example........
I am a white kid lose my place at college to an kid of ethnic minority because the college has a quota of places demanded to be filled by minorities.
even though I may have better grades than the other kid.

repealing affirmative action is equaling the rights for all.

Last edited by Rete; Nov 8th 2006 at 1:59 pm. Reason: edited to make sense
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 2:00 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Originally Posted by Rete
OMG ... Mercury going pass the sun today must be throwing everything out of alignment. I actually agree with you.

Affirmative action is discrimination. Just as there is no such thing as reverse discrimination (discrimination is still discrimination), affirmative action is actually negative action. A legal act of discrimination.
It's the end of the world as we know it!


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Old Nov 8th 2006, 2:07 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Originally Posted by Manc
not at the expense of people whom may deserve to be there more.

Exactly.
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 2:11 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

As I said, if affirmative action is corrupted by those who would merely try to achieve a quota as laid down by law, then it should be overhauled, not repealed. Apart from the fact that the USA will always owe the black population and many of the other ethnic people it has used to build the country from a rag tag collection of indentured criminals (for the most part) to what it has become, a debt that can never be repaid; why not give those that dare aspire to a decent education the chance to get one?

Let's be honest, if it were not set down by law very few employers or institutions in this country would prefer a black over a white person. It is like turning back the clock to the 1960's. What next? De-segregated schools? Diners? Swimming pools?

I know first hand how affirmative action can be a negative thing when it is used only to fill quotas and not in the spirit it was intended. I worked in local government back home for years and saw people preferred based on their race, gender, sexuality etc. This was not because of equal op's but rather that those responsible for implementing it were cowardly little men too afraid to enter into the spirit of equality and what it means.

I don't know what the stats are to be honest, but if there are so many places at college or in the work place that must be filled by minorities, I would bet that there are not many more filled than the amount specified by law. Not counting areas such as Detroit where the population is largely black and hence must rely on a largely black work force.
So, to reiterate, if it isn't working look at it again. Affirmative Action is a positive thing and repealing it can have no good consequences.
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 2:13 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Originally Posted by Silly Sod
Apart from the fact that the USA will always owe the black population and many of the other ethnic people
The USA owes nobody anything.
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 2:17 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Originally Posted by Rete
OMG ... Mercury going pass the sun today must be throwing everything out of alignment. I actually agree with you.

Affirmative action is discrimination. Just as there is no such thing as reverse discrimination (discrimination is still discrimination), affirmative action is actually negative action. A legal act of discrimination.
There is a huge difference between affirmative action and positive discrimination. One being positive in it's intent and the other.......not. I know many black people at home, family and friends, who would not take a job if they felt it was given purely because they were black. They are aware that they are being discriminated against in this way as much as if they were denied the job for the same reason. Reading some of these replies I would gues that Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X are spinning right now. God Bless (British Ex-pats in) America
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 2:20 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Originally Posted by Manc
The USA owes nobody anything.
A bold statement manc. How about the Native population who were to all intents and purpose victims of genocide (america itself seems to think it owes the remainder of those peoples someting).
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Old Nov 8th 2006, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: Affirmative dis-satisf(action)

Originally Posted by Silly Sod
As I said, if affirmative action is corrupted by those who would merely try to achieve a quota as laid down by law, then it should be overhauled, not repealed. Apart from the fact that the USA will always owe the black population and many of the other ethnic people it has used to build the country from a rag tag collection of indentured criminals (for the most part) to what it has become, a debt that can never be repaid; why not give those that dare aspire to a decent education the chance to get one?

Let's be honest, if it were not set down by law very few employers or institutions in this country would prefer a black over a white person. It is like turning back the clock to the 1960's. What next? De-segregated schools? Diners? Swimming pools?

I know first hand how affirmative action can be a negative thing when it is used only to fill quotas and not in the spirit it was intended. I worked in local government back home for years and saw people preferred based on their race, gender, sexuality etc. This was not because of equal op's but rather that those responsible for implementing it were cowardly little men too afraid to enter into the spirit of equality and what it means.

I don't know what the stats are to be honest, but if there are so many places at college or in the work place that must be filled by minorities, I would bet that there are not many more filled than the amount specified by law. Not counting areas such as Detroit where the population is largely black and hence must rely on a largely black work force.
So, to reiterate, if it isn't working look at it again. Affirmative Action is a positive thing and repealing it can have no good consequences.
So if you were to apply for a job, with impeccable qualifications and an exact match for the position but not of the correct race, you think you should be discriminated against because of your race?

That is what affirmative action is currently in a nutshell. There are many laws out there that were passed with one intention but have been taken over for other purposes.

IMHO the intent of the law was best candidate = the one who gets the position regardless of race. The current use of the law is the one who gets the job = the best candidate from the ethnic group who you are lacking staff in.

No one should be forced to face racial or sexual discrimination.
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