dc koop

But what's all that got to do with fighting a modern war? The Marines are great guys but this isn't WW2 and Iwo Jima and Marines only account for part of a land force in any invasion force.

You say that the Iraqi army collapsed pretty quickly. Maybe the same might happen to the Iranian military assuming that Russia doesn't get involved on Iran's side but it's what happens afterwards that matters.

The US forces couldn't prevent thousands of it's troops being killed or losing limbs through IEDs or other covert warfare. What makes you think the Iranians wouldn't adopt the same tactics? Iran is a mountainous country with lots of desert, much the same as Iraq and Afghanistan. Very difficult terrain for any military force to operate in.

George Bush wasn't a draft dodger but he dodged Vietnam by getting his daddy to pull a few strings to get him into the Texas Air National Guard, a unit that was never deployed to Vietnam. Trump on the other hand did dodge the draft. Funny how these people are always gung ho to go to war at the drop of a hat.

If Trump goes to war against Iran he'll go it alone. The NATO countries aren't stupid enough to get into that scenario
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Trump couldn't even count on Israel to support him militarily. They would never send any of the IDF to Iran. They'd just be happy to let Trump be the fall guy

mrken30

The Iranians have also just bout either s-300s or s-400s from the Russians. That would make air strikes a bit more difficult.

HDWill

A few thoughts:

Since a large majority of the US military is either (a) working class white males or (b) blacks, their leanings in the 2016 election aren't hard to guess. Then again, so many are in the 'young people' demographic that votes at low rates. I was in the Army in Korea in 2004 during the election- our platoon sergeant asked us how many had sent in absentee ballots- only two of twenty raised our hands.

In my initial Army training I don't recall anyone ever mentioning the apolitical imperative. I know it's different for officers for whom criticizing high officials is a crime.

Since political differences are so highly correlated with racial differences, and racial strife is one of the most corrosive factors in terms of unit readiness, it behooves any commander to shut down political arguments 'with extreme prejudice.'

Leslie

That all makes perfect sense. Thanks for the insight. Young people are often not interested in politics, even when political policies affect them directly.

I also think that the word intersectionality, though overused, really applies here. The "troops" are not a monolith and cannot be pigeonholed. Neither can officers.

moneypenny20

I have never heard it before. That's not a real word. Is it? That's a bizarre corporate US mumbo jumbo word. Don't use it again. x

Leslie

It's not corporate US mumbo jumbo. It's socio political US mumbo jumbo. I love it and I'm going to find a way to use it every day. I wish I was pregnant so I could name my baby Intersectionality.

moneypenny20

Insect for short.

SultanOfSwing

Oh yeah, they are big. But if you have to run into a bear, you'll want it to be a black bear. Apparently, they are the easier ones to scare off as long as you aren't between them and their cubs/food source. Brown bears will just **** you up for fun, though.

7/11 actually. Unmployment has hit coyotes pretty hard around here.

Giantaxe

+1

The modus operandi of that poster is to make sweeping generalizations without any evidence or attributions to back up his claims.

RICH

Intersectionality Leslie-Boiler has a ring to it. Future POTUS perhaps.

morpeth

There was nothing dishonest said. I gave an opinion. If you took that as "gloating" or the opinion offended you, then that was not the intent. As I didn't vote for Trump there is no reason for me to gloat. As you quoted me , I said " I don't think". As far as personal anecdotes, as the one you mentioned, I find they can be helpful in addition to the news. I guess I though so obvious there would be different opinions amongst the troops, that I wasn't meaning all the troops would feel that way- so I accept I should have qualified that statement by saying "most" or other such word.

morpeth

I never have understood how any draft dodger could end up being commander in chief.

Leslie

I understand that this is your opinion but you base your opinion on a false narrative.

It's not about my personally being offended, I've stopped being offended ... now I'm just annoyed. Annoyed by the meme that somehow the whole military was anti-Obama and couldn't wait to see the back of him. This is a right-wing talking point based on the few vocal soldiers/officers who have expressed negative sentiments about the Obama doctrine. My opinion is that, much like many sectors of the US, as time goes by, the military will miss Obama more and more. Sometimes, trying to not get them killed is a nice way to "support the troops".

I'm also done with the right-wing co opting the entirety of the military as if there were only white working class males serving. Approximately 30% of the enlisted personnel are categorized as being of minority status. This does not include Hispanics, who make up another 10%. Immigrants make up around 8-10%.

On the other hand, the representation of officers is overwhelmingly white and male. Upwards of 70%.

The saying is, "Support Our Troops" not "Support the Generals Who are Constantly Trying to Take Our Troops into War".

dc koop

Dick Cheney was also a draft dodger.

On the other side of the coin President Eisenhower who had commanded forces in Europe during WW2 and seen thousands of young men go off to their deaths during and after D-Day knew all about war and the emerging influence of the military industrial complex in later years troubled him.

Some wars like WW2 against brutal tyrants such as Hitler were justified and in a noble cause so one cannot say that all wars are evil it's just that some wars like Iraq were worthless, were the root cause of ISIS and destabilized the middle east considerably

morpeth

I agree with much you have just written. The idea that it is just white working class males among the enlisted men gives a false impression. Among the groups I got to know while most were white males, the percentage of minorities was higher than the percentage of the local population accounted for by minorities. I didn't know it before , but immigrants not yet citizens could enlist as well, and while most received their citizenship on graduation from boot camp, some did not.

Yes I expressed my opinion based primarily on that group of recruits, and also veterans I have spoken to. By no means a scientific opinion based on extensive polling data. Many of recent veterans I spoke to complained bitterly about the rules of engagement they were required to follow.

Haven't spoken much to veteran or serving officers, I would be curious their views compared to enlisted men on these issues.

And I agree, seems those who are vocal we hear about the media may not be at all representative.